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Drug addicts could be given heroin to stop them stealing

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16 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Free alcohol for the addicts too? Make it cheap, yes. Give it free, no

Agreed, but there is already cheap wine for alcoholics. Heroin costs almost nothing to produce, so it would be easy to make a reasonable profit while selling it very inexpensively in government stores. If they sold good quality Opium, a lot of users might not bother with the refined stuff.

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Agreed, but there is already cheap wine for alcoholics. Heroin costs almost nothing to produce, so it would be easy to make a reasonable profit while selling it very inexpensively in government stores. If they sold good quality Opium, a lot of users might not bother with the refined stuff.


Apparently you can buy a dose of heroin on the street for $20.

They can already get methadone for free.

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On 2/16/2018 at 4:10 AM, faraday said:

How can you be so niave, to not accept that any drug in sufficient quantity or purity will kill?

 

Is Paracetamol dangerous, generally not. But consumed in sufficient quantity, it will kill.

 

Ingest a highly concentrated form of Cannabis, it will kill you.

 

Trying looking at LD in toxicology. Then perhaps you might possibly begin to see my point. But, I doubt it.

 

A few joints, then no.

It's an "old" post, I know, but since the discussion is still active, it's a good introduction to clarify a few things.

 

    - Paracetamol is actually quite dangerous, it doesn't take a very high dose (above the maximum allowed) and it can lead to liver failure, and that's the end of your liver, even if you get medical attention quickly. Living with a transplant is no joke...For this reason, Germany was considering to put it on the list of prescription drugs, a few years ago, after the death of an otherwise healthy person (it's still over the counter though).

 

   - I have no idea how dangerous "highly concentrated Cannabis" is, but it's certainly a lot more dangerous than smoking one or several joints. Nobody smokes/eats/vapes a highly concentrated form though, so it is a purely scientific consideration with no or very little practical significance. However, as for the lethal dose of "normal" weed, it is not really known since no one ever died from it, but it is supposed that a person would have to ingest several kilograms to be in actual danger. Of course, even if someone actually tried to consume that much (for whatever reason), he would get extremely high first, and then just fall asleep long before he got to the lethal dose. 

 

   - Apparently it is true that there are, and have been, people that used heroin their whole life, and just like with morphine, it seems that if you don't use dirty needles and inject clean heroin, there are no or almost no long term health effects. Unfortunately though, it's not that easy to get unbiased information, a lot of it comes straight from the "War on Drugs" misinformation manual, so most people think heroin is extremely bad for your health, even more than cigarettes or alcohol, which is just not true, AFAIK.

 

- Heroin IS extremely addictive, that's the one thing that every addict and ex-addict agree on. And if you use it regularly, you develop a tolerance quite quickly, so you need to take more if you still want to get high - this is what makes heroin so dangerous, plus the horrible withdrawal symptoms. Which means that it's really not that easy to use responsibly, and the people who are supposedly among us and use it regularly for years without anyone noticing, probably don't get high anymore, but take a "maintenance" dose every day. That way they lead a normal life, and can indulge their addiction without harming anyone. If you wanna get high regularly without upping the dose, you can only take some maybe once a week, and that takes a lot of self discipline. 

 

That's what I have learned, by reading articles and speaking with doctors over the years, these are facts and not just my opinion. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but with facts, please.

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On 3/12/2018 at 9:56 AM, Sapporillo said:

- Heroin IS extremely addictive, that's the one thing that every addict and ex-addict agree on. And if you use it regularly, you develop a tolerance quite quickly, so you need to take more if you still want to get high

Hence the high expense of a long-term habit, no matter the price for a dose initially. If heroin was legalized/decriminalized and regulated, the cost would be minimal compared to now. Anyone with an unlimited supply of regulated heroin can keep getting high without much danger and no great need to resort to crime. Unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation.

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10 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Anyone with an unlimited supply of regulated heroin can keep getting high without much danger and no great need to resort to crime. Unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation.

Yes and no: if you want to keep getting high regularly (ie more than a 3-4 times per month), the necessary dose will eventually become so big that it will take over your life anyway. Eventually, you won’t be able to get up or to do anything other than go to the pharmacy and buy your supply, and the rest of the time you’ll be half-wake, half-asleep. It doesn’t necessarily have to end like this, there are people who have proven otherwise, but it takes a strong mind and a lot of discipline to not get overwhelmed. It seems that the high you’re getting from heroin is just extremely good. Some people get hooked on drugs like Tramadol, which is a lot less addictive - heroin definitely isn’t for everyone. Then again, most people I know wouldn’t wanna try it, even if it were legal. 

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Not sure in Tramadol is any "less" addictive than heroin. However, one can die from going off methadone cold turkey and that is not true of heroin. William Borroughs used heroin and other opiates most of his life and died at 83 from a heart attack. He was on opiates at the time. He said he had no regrets about using heroin.

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Its not the heroin that's the problem, its the illegality. Users are going to use so why not just give it to them and let the rest of the community be safer.

 

Maybe the powers that be like criminals to keep the insurance companies in business. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/14/2018 at 6:39 PM, hanssna said:

Good idea, these programs have worked miracles in Amsterdam, with methadon and later also with controlled heroin supplying / using. Less (heroin related) crime on the streets now than in tbe eighties. 

Nope, it didn't. The heroin addicts who received heroin on the houseboat were almost all cheating them by exchanging the heroin with cocain that they could continue to shoot their cocktails. ( Heroin mixed with cocaine).

 

   Too many Methadone users who were/are in the program sell/ sold their methadone to people from other countries who can't get that.

 

 Another very important point, the methadone. A heroin addict can withdrawal in less than a week, but if he's been in a methadone programme for years, stopping is almost impossible.

 

  The withdrawal symptoms of methadone is so strange including halucinations, that goes on for many weeks, almost impossible to stop.

 

  If heroin addicts is given heroin, it makes sense, but to give a heroin addicted methadone is a very questionable decision.

 

  But shouldn't it be the goal to get them clean? I mean those who've started with heroin only a few months ago, not the junkies who'd been on the needle for 30 years?

Germany has tried several ways, one was the "open scene" at the banking area In Frankfurt/M, at a park where thousands of people where shooting their prefered drug, but it finally had to be stopped like the free heroin on Dutch houseboats.

 

  

 

 

Edited by jenny2017

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2018 at 3:48 PM, Sapporillo said:

Yes and no: if you want to keep getting high regularly (ie more than a 3-4 times per month), the necessary dose will eventually become so big that it will take over your life anyway. Eventually, you won’t be able to get up or to do anything other than go to the pharmacy and buy your supply, and the rest of the time you’ll be half-wake, half-asleep. It doesn’t necessarily have to end like this, there are people who have proven otherwise, but it takes a strong mind and a lot of discipline to not get overwhelmed. It seems that the high you’re getting from heroin is just extremely good. Some people get hooked on drugs like Tramadol, which is a lot less addictive - heroin definitely isn’t for everyone. Then again, most people I know wouldn’t wanna try it, even if it were legal. 

Tramadol is highly addictive and it's much easier to get off heroin than off Tramadol. Ifof course depends on the dose and how long the substance had been abused. 

Edited by jenny2017
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On 3/11/2018 at 6:42 PM, mogandave said:

 


Apparently you can buy a dose of heroin on the street for $20.

They can already get methadone for free.
 

 

It's not "just heroin". It's often Fentanyl, which can be deadly in a very small dosage.Chinese laboratories produce tons of that stuff and it's very easy to buy kilos or more. Just Google it and you'll find a company that will sell it to you. Scary.

 https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5vpdx/how-fentanyl-gets-to-the-us-from-china

 

Please see a lethal dose of heroin and a lethal dose of Fentanyl 

The killer.jpg

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BANGKOK 21 July 2018 13:07
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