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BANGKOK 15 November 2018 15:03
janclaes47

Pool electrical issues

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Posted (edited)

On my pool I have a waterfall , 3 pool led lights, Jacuzzi pump , jacuzzi air blower and 1 jacuzzi led light.

 

Each of these have their own contactor.

 

I can operate them manually or by remote.

 

For remote I have one of these

 

http://www.step1990.com/ผลิตภัณฑ์/wireless-switch/i502l/

 

From the 4 slots I use only 3.

 

Slot 1 : Jacuzzi pump - jacuzzi air blower and jacuzzi light.

 

Slot 2 : waterfall

 

Slot 4 : Pool lights

 

I can manually operate all items at the same time and there is no problem.

 

If I use the remote and operate any 2 of them in combination the contactors will open after a few seconds.

 

Take note no breaker will open, however each of the items has also it's own breaker and a safety cut of the type below is installed and set to the lowest.

 

Also if start just 1 of the functions, and then press button 3 to which nothing is connected, the contactor will also open.

 

What does this indicate?

 

112064_L.jpg

Edited by janclaes47

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Has it ever worked properly?

 

How long after the control operation does the contactor open?

 

If you temporarily disconnect the contactors and replace with lamps does it work correctly?

 

 

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1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

I can manually operate all items at the same time and there is no problem.

 

If I use the remote and operate any 2 of them in combination the contactors will open after a few seconds.

 

Take note no breaker will open, however each of the items has also it's own breaker and a safety cut of the type below is installed and set to the lowest.

 

Also if start just 1 of the functions, and then press button 3 to which nothing is connected, the contactor will also open.

 

What does this indicate?

 

It indicates that your remote has some strange properties.

 

Using a 'remote' will not be the same as manual activation. When pressing a button on the remote, that button assignment needs to be conveyed to a receiver to actuate its own contactor to simulate a manual button press. How the 'remote' unit conveys two, three or more simultaneous button presses will vary by the design of the remote.

 

You'd need to find out how your 'remote' works. 

And usually the only way to do that is to take it out of circuit and set up a test circuit and run it through its paces.

How many simultaneous buttons can be pressed / what combinations.

Length of allowed button press.

Response to multiple rapid presses.

 

If the remote is doing analog->digital then transmitting digital 'tokens' over a single radio channel to represent a button press... simultaneous button presses are gonna be confusing. (think about how a TV remote deals or doesn't deal with simultaneous button pressing).

 

Simultaneous actuation of 4 dedicated buttons should be doable. But the remote needs to be designed to do it. 

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41 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Has it ever worked properly?

 

How long after the control operation does the contactor open?

 

If you temporarily disconnect the contactors and replace with lamps does it work correctly?

 

 

Probably 5 seconds before the contactor open.

 

I never tried a lamp, as i don't know which contacts on the contactor to connect it to.

 

It has been like this for long, but if i recall before it only happened if I enabled all 3 functions, now any 2 functions and it happens.

 

If I operate manually, which also engages the contactors, I can run everything at the same time indefinitely.

 

The strange thing is that to port 3 no wire is attached, but if i open any 1 of the functions by remote, then press button 3, the contactor will open after 5 seconds.

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Odd indeed, I was wondering if you had accidentally enabled a one-at-a-time function, but a 5 second delay suggests not.

 

If you can post a photo of the contactor we can say where to connect the lamp.

 

The controller may just be cream-crackered :sad:

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2 minutes ago, RichCor said:

You'd need to find out how your 'remote' works. 

And usually the only way to do that is to take it out of circuit and set up a test circuit and run it through its paces.

How many simultaneous buttons can be pressed / what combinations.

Length of allowed button press.

Response to multiple rapid presses.

If you click on the link I posted you can see the spec of the remote, and it looks like it should be up for this purpose, as it say up to 8A per circuit.

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3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Odd indeed, I was wondering if you had accidentally enabled a one-at-a-time function, but a 5 second delay suggests not.

 

If you can post a photo of the contactor we can say where to connect the lamp.

 

The controller may just be cream-crackered :sad:

20180323_141946.thumb.jpg.afa6911ac4d3d7a9ca4184bb1c78731d.jpg

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I wonder if a brown-out caused by the motors starting is resetting the controller. Time to get out the light bulbs methinks.

 

Contactor coils are on A1 and A2.

 

 

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Just now, Crossy said:

I wonder if a brown-out caused by the motors starting is resetting the controller. Time to get out the light bulbs methinks.

 

Contactor coils are on A1 and A2.

 

 

OK I will report back tomorrow.

 

How do you explain the pressing of button 3 shutting down the operation?

 

There is no wire in slot number 3., but if I press button 3 ( even when nothing is running) i hear a remote click somewhere.

 

The system runs over relays

 

20180323_143327.thumb.jpg.cc82e1c5b2f69521012fbb19a7e332ea.jpg

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As the remote is designed to be a replacement for 4 standard light switches, it should function fine to engage the latch function of a dedicated relay.

 

If it doesn't hold a relay closed, and subsequently doesn't keep a light bulb lit in a separate test, then time to replace the receiver.

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@Crossy Something else to consider.

 

The whole system is off.

 

I first press button 3 ( you know nothing connected to it). I hear a remote click somewhere, I assume in the remote control unit.

 

Next I press button 1, and it will start up jacuzzi and close down after maybe 2 seconds. I also correct my previous statement that it takes 5 seconds, as it is more like 2.

 

I can press button 1 twice, once to disable and second time to start again, and it will start again and again shut down after 2 seconds.

 

I can do this as many times as i want.

 

Now say I press button 1 and it shuts down after 2 seconds, and I then press button 2 without pressing button 1 first to disable, then nothing will start and i can press as many buttons as i want, nothing will start any more.

 

I have now to cycle power to the control box to enable it again.

 

 

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Thai brand Step remote control often make trouble when near load of inductance. Power supply on these is basic with poor filters and often cause damage to microcontroller or damage in program that will not fix itself.

 

Step controller have a reset method to try but I am nearly sure it will not fix this fault.

 

Replace controller will fix problem but need mains filter or use better qualities of remote system.

 

Cheap Step brand is not good for this condition.

 

Regular fault with these controller are ->


1 Many channel operate when one only required
2 Channel turn off after time delay
3 Channel fail to operate

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2 hours ago, SomchaiDIY said:

Thai brand Step remote control often make trouble when near load of inductance. Power supply on these is basic with poor filters and often cause damage to microcontroller or damage in program that will not fix itself.

 

Step controller have a reset method to try but I am nearly sure it will not fix this fault.

 

Replace controller will fix problem but need mains filter or use better qualities of remote system.

 

Cheap Step brand is not good for this condition.

 

Regular fault with these controller are ->


1 Many channel operate when one only required
2 Channel turn off after time delay
3 Channel fail to operate

 

Can you tell me where the reset button is located please, so I can give it a try.

 

Since this has a learning remote, I assume i will have to pair the remote again after reset, and i don't have the manual any more.

 

If i have to replace, what would be a better suited remote system for my application?

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3 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Can you tell me where the reset button is located please, so I can give it a try.

 

Since this has a learning remote, I assume i will have to pair the remote again after reset, and i don't have the manual any more.

 

If i have to replace, what would be a better suited remote system for my application?

Best to view video and ask friend for translate if need.

 

Video reset clear

 

 

 

Video learning remote

 

 

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I presume the 3 contactors, which look like relays, have a good solid neutral connection on the coils?

This is going to sound like BS, but you have made me think back to a problem I had years ago where an interposing  solid state 'relay' fed from a  type of remote controller gave me problems. The current draw of the contactor/relay coil,  seemed to be insufficient to hold the latch of the remote controller. It was designed for a bit more load. The solution might be to put resistors across each contactor coil. 

 

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