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boomerangutang

over 1.5 hrs waiting at DM imm queue

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5 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I just told my (Thai) wife about your 3 1/2 hour experience and said anyone who experiences that wouldn't come back. Her response was, "Good, I hope they don't come back." Sums it up really, doesn't it. Nobody gives a suck.

You can tell your wife (I assume she's Thai) that it's a good character quality to welcome visitors to one's home country.  Perhaps Thais don't give a crap, as long as they get as much of the visitors' money as possible.  I hope I'm wrong about that.

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On 4/2/2018 at 4:13 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Are we soon to see the next 'cash-grab' where Thai Immigration suggests a 'processing' charge per passenger to cover the expense of additional immigration officers at the Airports.

 

We once had the 500 Baht Airport Departure Tax which was used to be paid in cash before the system was changed (not abolished) and that price was added to International Tickets. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me to see the departure system going backwards - what a little money spinner that would be. 

 

Medical Insurance charges upon entry. Additional service taxes on departure. 

 

I fail to see how the 500 baht Departure tax is any different to so many Western airports charging "airport improvement fees" and a myriad of other taxes. Vancouver International charges $20 dollars to leave and the same to enter for airport improvement. They've been improving the airport for a number of years now. This isn't a Thailand only issue.

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On 3/4/2561 at 6:58 PM, boomerangutang said:

You can tell your wife (I assume she's Thai) that it's a good character quality to welcome visitors to one's home country.  Perhaps Thais don't give a crap, as long as they get as much of the visitors' money as possible.  I hope I'm wrong about that.

 

Recently my old Thai work colleague went to Japan for a week with several friends, none of them have ever travelled abroad before. They had to wait 10 minutes to get their passports stamped on arrival in Japan.

 

My old colleagues' complaint - they should have more respect for Thai people, why can't they set up many desks for Thai people to stamp their own passports? 

 

Another friend mentioned the long immigration queues (in and out) at the 2 main Thai airports. The lady's response - that's because people from other countries cannot be trusted, they are dishonest. 

 

 

 

Edited by scorecard
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On 2/4/2561 at 5:28 PM, DJ54 said:

BKK can be extremely crazy when a lot of passengers tourist from C

 

And the airport authorities and passport folks know in advance when there will be peak arrivals and departures and should plan for mass arrivals / departures. Other countries can do it easily and with no delays, why can't Thailand?

 

 

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I have been told if you are married to a Thai National you can go through that line...

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Some people live in their own imaginary world oblivious to the actual facts and reality that exists;

 

On 4/2/2018 at 8:37 AM, boomerangutang said:

See my post, below.  Thailand is encrusting itself in 3rd World Country status by emphasizing class differences.  Thailand should try to be a bit egalitarian, and treat all people decently, not only those who wear business suits and gold jewelry.   Most of the people who arrive at the 2 Bkk airports have been traveling for between 12 and 30 hours.  They're tired, unwashed, ......yet they're compelled to wait in ridiculously long slow-moving lines for between 1 and 3 hours.  Disgusting. 

 

I don't like the concept of privilege.  Thailand is extremely stratified (social classes) already.  Adding elite services only exacerbates that.  It screams 3rd World Country!  Idi Amin, Bokassa and Gadhafi would love it.

 

Thai officials should treat all people decently, and not predicate treatment on a person's skin-color, how rich they appear, or how much they pay, or whether they have an Asian-looking woman alongside.  It's disgusting and all reasonable-minded people who see it (for most visitors to Thailand, it's their first impression) ....it's THIRD WORLD CORRUPT COUNTRY personified.

 

Are you upset because the locals do not call you master or Bwana, and do not accept your preachings and political dictates?

 

1. Most of the people who arrive at the 2 Bkk airports have been traveling for between 12 and 30 hours.    WRONG

The majority of visitors (foreign nationals by passport) to Thailand are  from SE Asia. Even if one excludes the  border visits from Laos and Cambodia,it still exceeds 60%. The majority of these travelers are on flights of 5 hours or less. A large number are under 3 hours (HKG, SIN, SGN, HAN).  China accounts for  almost 29% of visitors now. Japan and Korea combined 8%. It's not that far to fly from Taiwan, Indonesia, India.   Western long haul visitors are a minority of  airport traffic now.   

 

2. You don't like the concept of privilege;  And yet you are in Thailand.  It didn't seem to bother you when you arrived and stayed did it? The airport "priority" services are not much of a privilege. Let's review who has access;

 

1. Infirm, disabled - Ok. Let's have them removed from wheelchairs and they can crawl through. It would be just like the beggars in Patpong used to do. We can throw coins at them.

 

2. Cabin Crews: Good idea. That way they can be at risk and can be delayed and can then go to another desk to sign the rosters. Did you know that when the cabin crews go through in Thailand they are subject to additional verification and they sign off on the  crew manifests that the IO has at the desk. That requirement is part of the  additional security and oversight this region must apply.

 

3. Premium class and service purchasers:  Did you know that these people are subsidizing your transit through the security line?  If these people were added to the regular lines, it would be even slower. Instead they are charged a fee to pay for the additional facilities and personnel, thereby letting non extra fee paying people to benefit. They are paying for the  service. You can have the service if you pay. Why do you expect to be given additional services that you  refuse to pay for? It is you who has the self entitlement attitude.  If you want additional services, pay for it. You would be the first to complain if the airport added another 500 baht to your ticket to pay for the extra personnel and equipment.

 

The fact of the matter is that the majority of people are treated  in an acceptable manner by  the Immigration and security personnel. If you are having an issue, it is most likely due to your attitude. You call them 3rd world in respect to the administration of the  immigration  and security process, but the truth of the matter is that it is no worse than that found in many of the large western airports. My recent experience in the USA, Italy, France, Canada, and UK has not been any better. If anything, I am treated much more nicely by Thai personnel. 

 

You carry on about class differences as if they are non existent in the west. Because you do not see it, does not mean it is not there. It is more subtle. There are stratifications based upon economic position, education,  and ethnic characteristics that define western society. Do you think a jolly white boy would be welcome in much of Brixton, or a singing jew in London's Tower Hamlets?

 

On 4/3/2018 at 7:58 AM, boomerangutang said:

You can tell your wife (I assume she's Thai) that it's a good character quality to welcome visitors to one's home country.  Perhaps Thais don't give a crap, as long as they get as much of the visitors' money as possible.  I hope I'm wrong about that.

You are wrong. You should spread your message of welcome in the rest of the world. The Thais are far more welcoming than their cold grouchy regional neighbors like the Chinese, South Koreans and Japanese. Try traveling in the region and you will see the difference.

 

16 hours ago, scorecard said:

And the airport authorities and passport folks know in advance when there will be peak arrivals and departures and should plan for mass arrivals / departures. Other countries can do it easily and with no delays, why can't Thailand?

 

Really? Have you ever experienced airports in the USA and EU during peak travel  times? It is not unusual to wait 2 hours+ at MIA, LAX, EWR, JFK, PEK, DEL, MUM,YYZ, FCO and hundreds of other airports.  Weather delays, changes in schedules and personnel holidays  impact servicing. No country in the world will overstaff its airport because it is expensive. They staff for the normal use. The time when there may be a crowd represents less than 20% of total operating hours. If you want to have express service in off hours, you have the option of paying for it. That's the fair approach. The taxpayers and other  passengers should not have to pay for services that are  infrequently required.

 

 

Edited by geriatrickid
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On 4/2/2018 at 6:52 AM, boomerangutang said:

It's not clear how biz class or 1st class can avoid long queues.  Are there signs which direct the elite to shorter queues?  I didn't see any.   Are there signs at the airport which direct type-O 1-year visa holders (like me) to shorter queues than visa-on-arrival (which does have signs)?  No.  

 

Do you see how ill-managed things are at DM?   They need managers who can think and make things less bothersome for the thousands of weary travelers they get each day/night.   

Business class get you through the VIP channel along with aircrew etc. For 20 quid you can get a VIP pass and for an extra tenner be met by a golf cart and driven to Passport control.  The latter service is good If you have the misfortune to fly Thai air whose gate is about a mile from immigration.  I too, in the past had to queue for nearly two hours..

Edited by The manic

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On 4/15/2018 at 6:30 AM, scorecard said:

Recently my old Thai work colleague went to Japan for a week with several friends, none of them have ever travelled abroad before. They had to wait 10 minutes to get their passports stamped on arrival in Japan.

My old colleagues' complaint - they should have more respect for Thai people, why can't they set up many desks for Thai people to stamp their own passports? 

Another friend mentioned the long immigration queues (in and out) at the 2 main Thai airports. The lady's response - that's because people from other countries cannot be trusted, they are dishonest. 

quote: The (Thai) lady's response - 'that's because people from other countries cannot be trusted, they are dishonest.' 

 

If people are brought up in a certain atmosphere, they naturally see the world in that light. It applies to women's attitudes about men.  For example: if a girl is brought up in a place where all the men lie in order to try and get sex, then that girl is going to think that all men lie, and therefore not trust anything men say.  

 

Regarding personal safety:  If a person is brought up in a community where people are trustworthy, then it's likely that person will not lock up his car or house.  Now, look around Thailand: is there any car or house which is not locked?  Rare, indeed.  Are there any houses without walls or fences?  No.

 

This untrusting mind-set applies to Immigration, at least in a roundabout way.  If Thai authorities had more trust in people in general (Thais and non-Thais), then the entire Immigration process would be easier (....less lengthy and complicated).  But because there's a built-in distrust (not only in Thailand, but in most places around the world) the current problematic situations manifest.

 

Two very different immigration scenarios:

A. In the past two days, 13 African athletes ran off to hide in Australia.  They had arrived, legally, for the Commonwealth Games (athletic competitions).

 

B.  When I visited Europe in the early 2000's, I arrived at Vienna's airport.  My passage through customs lasted about 15 seconds, no queue.  I barely broke my walking stride.  I was shown a desk with a uniformed man sitting there.  He opened my US passport, put a 50-satang-sized stamp in it, smiled and waved me on.

 

 

Edited by boomerangutang
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On 4/10/2018 at 1:07 AM, duanebigsby said:

I fail to see how the 500 baht Departure tax is any different to so many Western airports charging "airport improvement fees" and a myriad of other taxes. Vancouver International charges $20 dollars to leave and the same to enter for airport improvement. They've been improving the airport for a number of years now. This isn't a Thailand only issue.

 

 

Its ok to admit your failures... 

 

Good, the Airports in other countries have been improved for a number of years, perhaps a result of the Departure and arrival tax...  Now... Thailand?

 

You've used the 'This happens elsewhere' argument which along with the 'if you don't like it go home' arguments are pretty boring, unimaginative responses - This is a Thailand issue, the congestion at Immigration upon entering and departing Thailand can be solved only by Thailands authorities... that there are also delays or additional taxes at airports elsewhere does not make it any less unacceptable that people are waiting for 1.5 hrs to enter or depart through Immigration. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Its ok to admit your failures... 

 

Good, the Airports in other countries have been improved for a number of years, perhaps a result of the Departure and arrival tax...  Now... Thailand?

 

You've used the 'This happens elsewhere' argument which along with the 'if you don't like it go home' arguments are pretty boring, unimaginative responses - This is a Thailand issue, the congestion at Immigration upon entering and departing Thailand can be solved only by Thailands authorities... that there are also delays or additional taxes at airports elsewhere does not make it any less unacceptable that people are waiting for 1.5 hrs to enter or depart through Immigration. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to the congestion issue, I responded to the "cash grab" .

When people on ThaiVisa insinuate that problems in Thailand are unique to the country or people the "This happens elsewhere" argument is fully valid. I don't think there is anywhere in the world which doesn't have some sort of entering and leaving tax or fee. Why should DM be any different?

 

I have never experienced any delay or lineup at DM and my comment was strictly about the 500 baht fee not about the congestion which is an issue which needs addressing.

 

I haven't used the "don't like it go home" argument on this forum. My attitude is when the cons outweigh the pros then leave.

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38 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I didn't respond to the congestion issue, I responded to the "cash grab" .

When people on ThaiVisa insinuate that problems in Thailand are unique to the country or people the "This happens elsewhere" argument is fully valid. I don't think there is anywhere in the world which doesn't have some sort of entering and leaving tax or fee. Why should DM be any different?

 

I have never experienced any delay or lineup at DM and my comment was strictly about the 500 baht fee not about the congestion which is an issue which needs addressing.

 

I haven't used the "don't like it go home" argument on this forum. My attitude is when the cons outweigh the pros then leave.

 

Fair enough.... My comment was about the fact that there once was a 500B departure tax which is now included in the cost of the Ticket, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the authorities at some point bringing back the 500 B charge per person to directly charge for the extra manpower required... A sort of 'double-tax'...  

 

The post was Indented with an ironic edge whereby Thailand blames the foreigner and financially penalizes them for its Tourism success, along the same lines as charging foreigners more in National Parks etc..

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1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

I didn't respond to the congestion issue, I responded to the "cash grab" .

When people on ThaiVisa insinuate that problems in Thailand are unique to the country or people the "This happens elsewhere" argument is fully valid. I don't think there is anywhere in the world which doesn't have some sort of entering and leaving tax or fee. Why should DM be any different?

I have never experienced any delay or lineup at DM and my comment was strictly about the 500 baht fee not about the congestion which is an issue which needs addressing.

I haven't used the "don't like it go home" argument on this forum. My attitude is when the cons outweigh the pros then leave.

eye-catching quote; "I have never experienced any delay or lineup at DM"

 

response:  You have probably never ice skated on Lake Baikal either.  Just because you have not experienced something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

Fact remains:  tens of thousands of weary travelers HAVE experienced unnecessarily long waits at DM and BKK airports.  The gist of the OP is a plead to Thai Imm authorities to do some basic low-cost (or free) things which can make a visitor's initial 2 hours in Thailand less aggravating.  

 

I can make sensible suggestions on some easy improvements, but Thai authorities don't want to hear what a farang suggests.  Thai officials have their orders (stemming from stupid decisions on high), and that's it - and that's why it's a dire problem that will continue for years or decades.

 

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51 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

eye-catching quote; "I have never experienced any delay or lineup at DM"

 

response:  You have probably never ice skated on Lake Baikal either.  Just because you have not experienced something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

Fact remains:  tens of thousands of weary travelers HAVE experienced unnecessarily long waits at DM and BKK airports.  The gist of the OP is a plead to Thai Imm authorities to do some basic low-cost (or free) things which can make a visitor's initial 2 hours in Thailand less aggravating.  

 

I can make sensible suggestions on some easy improvements, but Thai authorities don't want to hear what a farang suggests.  Thai officials have their orders (stemming from stupid decisions on high), and that's it - and that's why it's a dire problem that will continue for years or decades.

 

Hence my comment the congestion is an issue which needs addressing. Don't cherrypick one sentence and twist it to suit your argument. I said, and I repeat, although I haven't personally experienced the delays it is an issue which needs addressing. Reading comprehension 101 ?

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1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Fair enough.... My comment was about the fact that there once was a 500B departure tax which is now included in the cost of the Ticket, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the authorities at some point bringing back the 500 B charge per person to directly charge for the extra manpower required... A sort of 'double-tax'...  

 

The post was Indented with an ironic edge whereby Thailand blames the foreigner and financially penalizes them for its Tourism success, along the same lines as charging foreigners more in National Parks etc..

You and I will probably never agree on a lot of issues, which is fair enough.

I've argued the double pricing debate with the "other countries do it" argument as well.

Most of the countries doing double pricing ask to see the passport whereas here it can be the colour of your skin.

I think foreigners being charged more is fair enough but don't like the enforcement.

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BANGKOK 20 April 2018 15:55
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