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Boat caught in Europe's migration spat brings hundreds to Spain

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

I see today, that the latest ‘title’ being used for ‘those people’ is ‘Refugee Tourists’. It’s got a certain ring to it, I believe and suggests an element of non-danger & choices.


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Except the majority are not refugees - they are economic migrants!

 

'Economic migrant tourists' would be far more apt.

Edited by dick dasterdly
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Posted (edited)

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/06/18/is-merkel-end-right-around-corner.html

 

Immigration is a Core Value

Immigration is not simply a political asset to be horse-traded by leaders in the legislature. Someone should teach Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer this before the Democratic Party goes the way of the dodo.

It cuts too deeply into people’s personal identity and their sense of community and culture. Like it or not, people tend to seek out people like them.

We are hard-wired for this. And the cultural Marxists pushing for George Soros’ vision of the Open Society are bumping up against one of the most basic of human biases and survival instincts. Demonizing and dehumanizing people for political gain is not a path of societal cohesion but rather violence and civil war.

Cultural change comes slowly if at all, depending on the will of the people. Defending the culture is one of the most basic reasons people put up with government ineptitude in the first place.

Betraying that trust is what destroys governments and the powers pushing quislings like Merkel to continue that betrayal regardless of public sentiment are pushing this situation to a crisis point all across the West.

The leadership in Europe and the U.S. have built legal constructs to subvert that mandate while monopolizing the media to convince people this is the right path for their future.

Those who stand up for the shared values that make a country a country, no matter how culturally diverse internally, have seen huge electoral victories, while those that cling to the Utopian fantasy of the new Soviet man edicts of the finger-wagging elites and Progressives continue to lose not only power but legitimacy.

 

Short version: Liberals are the problem.

 

Edited by mokwit
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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except the majority are not refugees - they are economic migrants!

 

'Economic migrant tourists' would be far more apt.

 

Of course… smugglers as well as illegal economic migrants are well aware and informed… we do not take them for idiots, migration is a rational choice to escape the lousy living conditions in their own countries of origin ... So they behave rationally ...choose the country most attractive / adapted to their project,  in regards to their chances of success.

African migrants are going to the best bidder in Europe, where they speak and understand the language, where they have family members, where social care is given, where public opinion is tolerant, and where travel is possible… and exclude  Poland, Hungary etc...  

 

But we do  welcome and help integrate true refugees, who do not choose one host country over another.

Edited by Opl

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6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

So you're finally reduced to arguing about anything other than whether the majority of 'refugees' are actually economic migrants?

 

Please give up on your idea of 'intelligent response' by highlighting parts of a post and then ignoring the points made - preferring to concentrate on the (already admitted) opinions - and not arguing against them, just making ever more irrelevant opinions about those comments! 😀

 

I've no idea what point you thought you were trying to make, or how it relates to my comment.

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one thing that would be interesting to know is:
 
of asylum seeks that were refused asylum, how many are still in Europe ?

That is the exact reason why the first thing they do is to loose the passport.


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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:


That is the exact reason why the first thing they do is to loose the passport.
 

yes, but does our system work and are refused asylum seekers sent back in a useful timeframe or are they allowed to stay in what effectively is an "open door for anyone policy" ?

 

Edited by manarak
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13 hours ago, mokwit said:

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/06/18/is-merkel-end-right-around-corner.html

 

Immigration is a Core Value

Immigration is not simply a political asset to be horse-traded by leaders in the legislature. Someone should teach Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer this before the Democratic Party goes the way of the dodo.

It cuts too deeply into people’s personal identity and their sense of community and culture. Like it or not, people tend to seek out people like them.

We are hard-wired for this. And the cultural Marxists pushing for George Soros’ vision of the Open Society are bumping up against one of the most basic of human biases and survival instincts. Demonizing and dehumanizing people for political gain is not a path of societal cohesion but rather violence and civil war.

Cultural change comes slowly if at all, depending on the will of the people. Defending the culture is one of the most basic reasons people put up with government ineptitude in the first place.

Betraying that trust is what destroys governments and the powers pushing quislings like Merkel to continue that betrayal regardless of public sentiment are pushing this situation to a crisis point all across the West.

The leadership in Europe and the U.S. have built legal constructs to subvert that mandate while monopolizing the media to convince people this is the right path for their future.

Those who stand up for the shared values that make a country a country, no matter how culturally diverse internally, have seen huge electoral victories, while those that cling to the Utopian fantasy of the new Soviet man edicts of the finger-wagging elites and Progressives continue to lose not only power but legitimacy.

 

Short version: Liberals are the problem.

 

I think this also touches on Africa. People sometimes cite Africa's random borders drawn up there by former colonial powers for some of its deeply troubled hotspots and for why such a vast country with abundant natural resources has not developed to its full potential. If you look at a map of Africa, a lot of the borders there are straight, while in Europe and other parts of the world they tend to follow natural barriers such as rivers and mountain ranges which constituted serious obstacles to movement of peoples.
In Africa in the 19th century, the colonial powers arrived in the lands of the indigenous peoples there and drew straight line borders dividing their colonies chiefly in order to avoid conflict with other colonial powers.They could not care less about tribal and ethnic bonds between Africans.
This meant that two villages consisting of people belonging to the same tribe and speaking the same language could find themselves in two different colonies and under two drastically different administrations. Likewise, hostile tribes with different cultures could find themselves grouped together, leading to conflict, division and civil war.

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7 hours ago, manarak said:

yes, but does our system work and are refused asylum seekers sent back in a useful timeframe or are they allowed to stay in what effectively is an "open door for anyone policy" ?

 

There are many articles / government discussion on this matter. A reasonable starting point for research...

 

http://www.mixedmigrationplatform.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/MMP-Briefing-Paper-Rejected-asylum-seekers.pdf

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, manarak said:

thanks for that link!

it's not difficult to see the figures are catastrophic

only approximatively 50% give suit to the return order

 

and in the paper there is a disconnect between global figures of 360.000 rejections in 2016 and middle east and north africa (MENA), for which the total return orders only amounted to about 120.000

what about the other 240.000 ??? I can't believe there are so many asylum seekers from other parts of the world.

have these 240.000 people been rejected but not been issued return orders?

there is also the backlog from earlier years with similar gaps between rejections and return orders... where are these people?

the paper has no figures for 2017 and 2018...

 

it really suggests that today there could be about 300.000 to 400.000 refused asylum seekers who don't leave plus an even higher number of rejected applicants to which no return order was issued (yet). ??? one million staying illegally after rejection?

 

 

A number of your questions are answered in the linked document. As stated the linked doco is a starting point, if you're that interested take on further research via the likes of the EU / Frontex, country specific agencies  

 

Members express concern etc etc but cannot be bothered to do basic research. Another starting point which you could have easily located yourself...

 

https://frontex.europa.eu/

Edited by simple1
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5 hours ago, simple1 said:

A number of your questions are answered in the linked document. As stated the linked doco is a starting point, if you're that interested take on further research via the likes of the EU / Frontex, country specific agencies  

 

Members express concern etc etc but cannot be bothered to do basic research. Another starting point which you could have easily located yourself...

 

https://frontex.europa.eu/

 

you seem to know much better than me where to find this information.

 

the point here was to recognize that there is a problem of too many asylum seekers staying after rejection and the extent of the problem (huge).

 

beyond that, the dicussion about democracy is also relevant, because while minority protection is a good thing, the decision by governments against the will of their voters to import of more minorities from abroad really hurts the feeling of democracy.

 

in several European countries, large groups of voters are right wing without being far right extremists, yet the increasingly left-leaning policies of their elected parties give them the feeling of not being represented in parliament and they are presented with the choice, for example in Germany, to either continue to vote for CDU/Merkel for policies they disapprove of, or to vote for the AfD, which has been taken over by the extreme right in recent years.

The shift of the CDU from the right to the center under Merkel left Germany without a proper right wing party.

 

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BANGKOK 19 July 2018 09:26
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