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BANGKOK 14 December 2018 22:55
SlyAnimal

Maximum Waivers / Provisional Teaching Licnces

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What has been the general policy around the maximum number of teaching licence waivers / provisional teaching licences lately?

As I've had 2 already, my school contacted the department of labour who advised if they do a new work permit for me, they'd only do it until the date my current licence expires (which is in August).

I know that I can get a 3rd easily, however I don't want to if it'd be my last waiver, as my last waiver is my last opportunity to do study within Thailand for my full licence (And if I study, I might want to move closer to an airport, or to Bangkok, which might mean I'd change the school I'm teaching at).


I've asked my school to contact krusapa to ask about the max number of provisional teaching licences as well, and to explore the option of me being an instructor or trainer (My impression upon suggesting instructor/trainer though, is that it's unlikely to happen, as the teacher who previously organized WPs for us via this method is no longer at the school).

 

I don't need a WP for my visa, as am married, but with big joke cracking down on WPs etc, I kinda need to either get a WP or maybe resign at the end of the term, so any assistance which you guys are able to provide would be much appreciated.

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Posted (edited)

You may get three. You may get four. May...some are turned away after two. Khrusapa states up to six years.

 

I think your a bit of a fool to work without a permit. Especially being married. I'd rather have the permit and not the teaching waiver.

 

The school doesn't help you with this? Even if they don't, just diy the paperwork and submit it for another waiver ftw to lose.

 

I'm unclear if you're done in September or March. If March, and paperwork runs till October, I might gamble that. Low profile.

 

Changing schools may help. May help you get another waiver. If you stay they may question why no professional progress has been made. Just a thought.

 

Taking the instructor, organizer route gets you a wp but not a waiver correct? I'd heard this avenue dead but that was for non college grads.

Edited by ozmeldo

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I’m pretty sure changing schools automatically uses up a waiver, so I wouldn’t go down that road. Just let the school apply for another waiver; if refused maybe explore the options for teaching online, locals that want private lessons etc, but knock the teaching without a WP on the head asap

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Quote

 

Section 46 of the Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act, B.E. 2546 (2003) forbids any person from claiming the right to teach or to practice the teaching profession without being licensed by the Teachers’ Council.  Educational institutions are also forbidden to employ as teachers anyone who is not specifically licensed or granted explicit permission by the Teachers’ Council.

In view of the requirements of educational institutions in developing educational programs, there is a need for foreign teachers to engage in instruction and supervise study in said institutions.     The head of an educational institution must state the intent to the Teachers’ Council of Thailand,             to employ an individual to fill a teaching vacancy when a licensed teacher cannot be employed if the criteria and conditions given below are satisfactorily met.

1. Criteria for Granting of Permission
    Foreigners who are not holders of professional teachers’ licenses can be employed as teachers provided that they are qualified according to the following:
        1.1 Not younger than 20 years of age
        1.2 Satisfy one of the following requirements:
             (1) Have qualifications not less than that of being holders of a degree in education or its equivalent or  
             (2) Have qualifications not less than that of being holders of a bachelor’s degree in an area needed by an educational institution requiring carrying out teaching duties or
             (3) Are not holders of a degree, and they hold a teaching license from another country
        1.3 Are devoid of prohibited personal attributes as specified in Section 44 (B) of the Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act, B.E. 2546 (2003)

2. Conditions for granting permission are as follows:
         2.1 Educational institutions must request permission in specific cases.  Foreigners must teach in educational institutions under the control of the head of educational institutions of said educational institutions in accordance with the conditions specified in their teaching permit.
         2.2 No more than two years can be allowed in a single permission period and can be extended for a total period of not more than six years.
         2.3 The person granted permission to teach is required to satisfy professional qualifications for a teaching license within a period of six years from the first permission of teaching permit.
         2.4 If the person granted permission to teach violates professional ethics, does not adhere to the conditions specified, or does not satisfy the professional development standards, conditions and methods specified by the Teachers’ Council of Thailand, said person’s permission to teach shall be revoked.


 
Note: Professional qualification for the teaching license, please see
     Regulation of the Teachers’ Council of Thailand Regarding Professional Licensure B.E. 2559 (2016)

 

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4 hours ago, SlyAnimal said:

I know that I can get a 3rd easily, however I don't want to if it'd be my last waiver, as my last waiver is my last opportunity to do study within Thailand for my full licence (And if I study, I might want to move closer to an airport, or to Bangkok, which might mean I'd change the school I'm teaching at).

Currently the maximum is 3 temporary teaching permits with a maximum of 2 years each. Changing schools requires a new temporary teaching permit.

4 hours ago, SlyAnimal said:

I don't need a WP for my visa, as am married, but with big joke cracking down on WPs etc, I kinda need to either get a WP or maybe resign at the end of the term, so any assistance which you guys are able to provide would be much appreciated.

Working in Thailand requires a work permit regardless whether the extension of stay is based on having a Thai spouse or child or an extension of stay based on employment. 'Big Joke' is not cracking down on illegal working foreigners but on foreigners who don't have a legal permission of stay. 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry maybe I didn't explain clearly:

 

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

I think your a bit of a fool to work without a permit. Especially being married. I'd rather have the permit and not the teaching waiver.

 

The school doesn't help you with this? Even if they don't, just diy the paperwork and submit it for another waiver ftw to lose.

 

I know that I can get another waiver easily.   But I don't want to use my 3rd waiver if it'd mean I can't get another one (Which is why I'm asking here about if policies have changed regarding 4th/5th waivers, as previously the 3rd was the last.  I've heard of 4th ones being granted, but if so I need to know the circumstances so that I could ensure I can obtain one).

As to study a graduate diploma in teaching you need to be legally teaching in Thailand (i.e. Have a teacher's licence) while you study, as your coursework revolves around your practical experience teaching.  Which therefore means means that if you have run out of provisional teaching licences you might not be able to study the graduate diploma needed for a 1 year licence (And thus never legally be able to teach again.  Which sounds like the type of situation no sane governing bodies would allow.... but it's Thailand lol).


I don't know if institutions are capable of obtaining special dispensations for teachers who have already used their 3 licences.  I'm looking for information in a variety of different channels, so will likely contact some institutions to find out if they can or not (Although hopefully some posters can also tell me if they have any personal experience with this or not).

 

Quote

 

I'm unclear if you're done in September or March. If March, and paperwork runs till October, I might gamble that. Low profile.

  

Changing schools may help. May help you get another waiver. If you stay they may question why no professional progress has been made. Just a thought.

 

Taking the instructor, organizer route gets you a wp but not a waiver correct? I'd heard this avenue dead but that was for non college grads.

 

I work May - April.  So I'd normally finish teaching in early-mid March, although if I can't get a work permit I'd finish at the end of the current term (End of Sept).  So not much of a risk (2 months), particularly as even without the permit itself, I have all of the documents ready to obtain one (And I think they know all schools take a few months to get WPs organized).

Professional development I shouldn't have any problems.  I technically haven't done any since I obtained my 2nd waiver as I had to drop out of the seminars I was attending to complete my full licence, because Krusapa advised the university that they wouldn't give me credit for completing them because I'm a foreigner.  But I did more prior to my 1st waiver than most other foreign teachers do, so I don't anticipate this being a problem.

From what I've gathered in this thread, and a post I made to a teacher's fb group, 4th waivers are sometimes granted, but technically the maximum is 3.  Which is what I thought might be the case.  If anyone has been granted a 4th waiver, can you please advise what the circumstances of your 4th waiver were.  Someone in the fb group said that they had have had a 4th, but it sounded like the 4th might be a temporary teaching licence (as they had already finished their graduate diploma when they applied for it), which is granted while a full licence is pending (Or possibly be because they changed passports, if so then I'd maybe be ok as have had different passports on each of my previous licences and am now on a 3rd passport).

Edited by SlyAnimal

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, aidenai said:

Working in Thailand requires a work permit regardless whether the extension of stay is based on having a Thai spouse or child or an extension of stay based on employment. 'Big Joke' is not cracking down on illegal working foreigners but on foreigners who don't have a legal permission of stay. 

Oh sorry I sorta paraphrased here about Big Joke.  My head of department told me that the tourist police came to our school in March of this year, and that they were checking the work permits as well as passports of foreign teachers.  I wasn't there when they checked (I took last year off & only returned in May), but this is the first time I've heard of our school being checked since I started there 7 years ago, so I attribute the check to Big Joke's crackdown and see it as something that could actually happen.

I joke around that I'm white and so will be fine, but would really prefer that I didn't take the risk.

And me saying I don't need a WP for my visa, was more meaning that I don't need to work in order to remain in the country, as opposed to meaning that I can still work without a WP (Which could also be an option, if I was willing to take the risk of them not checking, but knowing they checked last year I'd rather not take the risk, even if it might only cost me some cash under the table).

Edited by SlyAnimal

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, SlyAnimal said:

Oh sorry I sorta paraphrased here about Big Joke.  My head of department told me that the tourist police came to our school in March of this year, and that they were checking the work permits as well as passports of foreign teachers.  I wasn't there when they checked (I took last year off & only returned in May), but this is the first time I've heard of our school being checked since I started there 7 years ago, so I attribute the check to Big Joke's crackdown and see it as something that could actually happen.

I joke around that I'm white and so will be fine, but would really prefer that I didn't take the risk.

And me saying I don't need a WP for my visa, was more meaning that I don't need to work in order to remain in the country, as opposed to meaning that I can still work without a WP (Which could also be an option, if I was willing to take the risk of them not checking, but knowing they checked last year I'd rather not take the risk, even if it might only cost me some cash under the table).

Sly, please check your inbox. 

 

   I don't believe the teacher who told you that Big Joke and Co were there. She must have had her own personal reason for such a hoax. 

Edited by jenny2017

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18 hours ago, SlyAnimal said:

Oh sorry I sorta paraphrased here about Big Joke.  My head of department told me that the tourist police came to our school in March of this year, and that they were checking the work permits as well as passports of foreign teachers.  I wasn't there when they checked (I took last year off & only returned in May), but this is the first time I've heard of our school being checked since I started there 7 years ago, so I attribute the check to Big Joke's crackdown and see it as something that could actually happen.

I joke around that I'm white and so will be fine, but would really prefer that I didn't take the risk.

And me saying I don't need a WP for my visa, was more meaning that I don't need to work in order to remain in the country, as opposed to meaning that I can still work without a WP (Which could also be an option, if I was willing to take the risk of them not checking, but knowing they checked last year I'd rather not take the risk, even if it might only cost me some cash under the table).

Don't take such a risk if you can easily be legal. 

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Posted (edited)

Fourth waivers are granted. I have one, so does another teacher I know. While the TCT stands in no school's shadow, my suspicion is leeway is given to better schools. If you are teaching at a marginal school, in a marginal province with other marginal employment behind you - that's where the TCT is less than willing to provide further opportunity.

 

Does your career show progression, regardless of not obtaining a grad diploma or pgce? Did you go from some crap school teaching M3/14 to EP at the best school in the province or have you been playing charades and hangman for five years while jumping to any school that will have you for an additional 1-2k?

 

It appears you have made a serious effort, I would think they should provide you a fourth - you are in point of fact trying and in progress.

 

Having said that, imo it is possible for entirely sketchy teachers to obtain a fourth waiver through the same school, based imo on the credibility of the school, not the teacher.

 

I'm unaware of anyone with five waivers.

 

Anyone change passports in last year? How did that work out?

 

PS If you do work under the table, I would not want the salary direct deposited. That's just stupid.

 

 

 

Edited by ozmeldo

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I received a 4th waiver.

I provided documentation that I had completed two years of a Masters of Education program at Assumption University and was currently working on my masters thesis.

 

I think if you show significant progress towards getting your teaching qualification then it is possible to get another waiver.

 

I have now completed my program and receive my teaching license.

 

I believe the waivers are to give you time to get your full kitchen qualification but most people don’t start the required work to get qualified until after more than four years of teaching on waivers.

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