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BANGKOK 13 December 2018 16:44
Chris Po

We have no committee anymore but management does not care.

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Hello, 

i live in a Condo in Jomtien, i bought 18 month ago . 

Last December we had the first general meeting and elected a committee , 5 owners. 

Because of the problem with the management we got , step by step all committee members resigned. 

They even post in a Facebook "Owners- Group" that there is no committee anymore. 

So i asked via e- mail the manager to make an extraordinare owners meeting, to elect new committee members. 

The manager wrote me back, that we have still a committee of 3 persons. 

One of the "ex-members" went to the Jomtien land office and asked if he is still on the list and yes, there are 3 members who resigned at the list. 

Today i was in office and asked them why resigned members are still on an official list. 

The manager answered that we will have the AGM end of March or April, and the Land Office says this is ok. 

I dont believe this. 

Since we have no committee anymore taking care of the problems it gets more and more a pig stable. 

Any advice how to go on ? 

Thank you in advance

Chris

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OP, I dont think this is anything to worry about as the committee doesn't run the block, the juristic person/office/manager runs the block, the office collects the fees, pays the wages, gets the lift repaired if it breaks etc. The committee supervises the office. The block should be able to run without a committee until the scheduled AGM.

The committee in my block meets a couple of times a year to check finances, quotes, progress, instruct to get quotes, authorise major expenditure etc, the rest of the year the office is running the block

An EGM can cost money, postage, printing, hire tables chairs PA system etc.

Its not a strict requirement to race off and advise the land office every-time a committee member resigns and wont make any difference to the running of the block , even if they are still on the land office list. Most blocks would report details to the land office once a year just after the AGM.

 

The committee doesnt have much to do with the day to day running of the block, so long as its business as usual with no great spending of funds etc, the block should be able to operate at least until the AGM. You can live in a block where the committee all live in Bangkok or outside thailand and meet 1-2 times a year.

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28 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, I dont think this is anything to worry about as the committee doesn't run the block, the juristic person/office/manager runs the block, the office collects the fees, pays the wages, gets the lift repaired if it breaks etc.

 

As the OP stated quote "it gets more and more a pig stable." the juristic person/office/manager does NOT run the block, at least not as they should.

 

We have a very bad management but unfortunately also a very bad committee. So I completely understand the OP.  In our case they even clearly violated the condominium act rules. Problem was that a complaint to the land department with proof of violation of the law did not help. Basically their explanation was that if just one co-owner is complaining the problem cannot be that big.

 

You need to find other co-owners supporting you with a complaint at the land department. Can be difficult - Thais do not complain even if they get cheated - at least in our building the Thai co-owners do not care so much...

Edited by zappalot
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8 hours ago, Chris Po said:

i live in a Condo in Jomtien, i bought 18 month ago . 

Last December we had the first general meeting and elected a committee , 5 owners. 

Because of the problem with the management we got , step by step all committee members resigned. 

That first meeting should, in theory, have been held earlier.

 

8 hours ago, Chris Po said:

One of the "ex-members" went to the Jomtien land office and asked if he is still on the list and yes, there are 3 members who resigned at the list. 

Today i was in office and asked them why resigned members are still on an official list. 

The manager answered that we will have the AGM end of March or April, and the Land Office says this is ok. 

A committee is legal as long as it still has at least 3 members. Resignations are only valid when submitted in writing, and technically the person resigning is still a registered committee member until replaced at an AGM/EGM.

 

If the number of committee members falls below 3, for any reason, then the Juristic Person Manager must call an EGM immediately. This is the law. I dont quite understand why your management are keen to delay this until April or March, but I suppose they have a reason and I doubt that it is anything favourable to you.
Who said that the Land Office said that was OK? Your management? If so they are probably lying. It is unwise to trust anything that any Thai management company says.

 

If you can raise written support from 20% of co-owners in the form of a petition then you can force the Jurisitic Person Manager to hold an EGM now. Always assuming that your JPM is honest and does his job properly, which apparently is not the case in your building. If the JPM does not obey the condo act, any co-owner can complain in writing to the Land Office. But such complaints are handled very slowly and mostly involve the Land Office sending out letters. So by the time they have done anything it may be April anyway.

 

If you are really motivated then 20% of co-owners can arrange their own meeting, bypassing the JPM and management. But depending on the size of your building that may not be easy.

 

I wonder do you know who your Juristic Person Manager is? This is NOT necessarily the building manager, though it is quite common (though undesirable) for the JPM to be a representative of your management company.
The JPM is the person responsible for calling elections and ensuring that the condo obeys the law. And so he is the person you need to be dealing with.

 

If your management company is not doing its job properly then the committee can sack them. You dont have to wait for an AGM/EGM. But that has to done through the JPM, which may be tricky if the JPM is part of the management company.

 

When you do next have a proper meeting I suggest that you pay great attention to selecting a good JPM: perhaps a concerned and honest co-owner (who must be either Thai or be allowed to work in Thailand).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, I dont think this is anything to worry about as the committee doesn't run the block, the juristic person/office/manager runs the block, the office collects the fees, pays the wages, gets the lift repaired if it breaks etc. The committee supervises the office. The block should be able to run without a committee until the scheduled AGM.

The committee in my block meets a couple of times a year to check finances, quotes, progress, instruct to get quotes, authorise major expenditure etc, the rest of the year the office is running the block

I would not be happy about a committee that was so lax. In my opinion a committee needs to meet monthly and to check absolutely everything. Failure to do so simply results in massive theft and fraud.

 

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

You can live in a block where the committee all live in Bangkok or outside thailand and meet 1-2 times a year.

The legal minimum is every 6 months.

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40 minutes ago, zappalot said:

We have a very bad management but unfortunately also a very bad committee. So I completely understand the OP.  In our case they even clearly violated the condominium act rules. Problem was that a complaint to the land department with proof of violation of the law did not help. Basically their explanation was that if just one co-owner is complaining the problem cannot be that big.

Yes, the Land Office will often go out of its way to minimise or play down complaints. They are not on the side of co-owners.

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7 hours ago, scorecard said:

A group of owners got together (include a senior cop who had recently bought a unit) and put up notices everywhere about an extraordinary AGM, the paid outside management company said they would call the police. The senior cop owner said 'go right ahead', and he guided the mass of owners through the right process to conduct the extraordinary AGM.

I can see why this person did this, and I can see that in many buildings a strong-arm approach like that is needed, but technically what he did was not legal. Still, it sounds like a case of the end justifying the means so well done for getting rid of your bad management.

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The Committee members that are still registered at the land office, is still legally the Committee. That means these persons are responsible for anything that is going on at your condo. They are responsible for ensuring that the manager is doing his/her job correctly. Please read the last few pages in the condominium act, there you will find a long list of penalties, including jail time, for not carrying out the duties of a committee member. 

Clearly, the people who volunteered as committee members were not up to the task.

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40 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I would not be happy about a committee that was so lax. In my opinion a committee needs to meet monthly and to check absolutely everything. Failure to do so simply results in massive theft and fraud.

 

The legal minimum is every 6 months.

Yes, I would agree, I was trying to point out to the OP that the committee doesn't run the block as such, more checks and balances on the office, who run the block.

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54 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I can see why this person did this, and I can see that in many buildings a strong-arm approach like that is needed, but technically what he did was not legal. Still, it sounds like a case of the end justifying the means so well done for getting rid of your bad management.

I thought the same, lots of specific requirements to call/have an EGM, a certain quorum required to sack committee and juristic etc.

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3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, I would agree, I was trying to point out to the OP that the committee doesn't run the block as such, more checks and balances on the office, who run the block.

Yes, if management are any good then the committee wont have a lot to worry about. But some management companies I have known are far from good and need to be told to do every little thing. If not told they simply dont do it. A lot of inexperienced committee members dont realise this and are surprised when things dont run themselves.

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3 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Please read the last few pages in the condominium act, there you will find a long list of penalties, including jail time, for not carrying out the duties of a committee member. 

Actually those last sections of the Condo Act dont have many penalties that are applicable to the chairman, and none that are applicable to regular committee members (except in as much as they are also co-owners).

 

The chairman can be fined a small sum for not calling a committee meeting every 6 months, or for failing to call one when requested to by 2 or more other committee members. There is no jail penalty for that though. All the other penalties (except those relating to all co-owners) seem to be down to the JPM and/or management only.

 

Of course there may be some civil liability for committee members who are negligent, and any sort of theft or fraud on their part would be a crime, but that isnt part of the Condo Act.

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It is not up to your office to call AGM, this is done by committee.

 

i doubt your original committee arrange an AGM so far in advance, therefore the management have done (are doing ) this.

 

technically, the resigned committee is still in force up to the AGM, since this is so, those three resigned members have the right to call or set AGM an/ Or EGM.

 

i would be be very wary of your management right now, since, if you wait until April, they have a long time left to fritter funds away to their own ends, ( which, whilst I’m not suggesting they are, it is a distict possibility ) 

 

I would be seriously getting together with the three resigned members and try and get them to act. I believe new members can immediately volunteer and can be voted onto committee by existing members before an AGM.  This may be an option if you have other owners interested in this. 

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6 minutes ago, anfh said:

It is not up to your office to call AGM, this is done by committee.

 

i doubt your original committee arrange an AGM so far in advance, therefore the management have done (are doing ) this.

An AGM is an annual event that must happen within 120 days of the end of the building's financial year. It doesnt matter much who calls it as it has to happen in order for the accounts to be presented, and in practice the JPM will arrange it once the accounts are ready to be presented.

 

All other general meetings are EGMs (extraordinary general meetings) and may be called by the JPM, a majority of the committee (not just the chairman), or at least 20% of the total co-ownership.

 

8 minutes ago, anfh said:

I believe new members can immediately volunteer and can be voted onto committee by existing members before an AGM.

No. Committee members can only be appointed or removed by a majority vote at a GM, allowing for the relevant quorum numbers as defined in the Condo Act (which has priority) or in the building regs. Members also cease to be members immediately when dead or when becoming:

(1) A minor, an incompetent or quasi-incompetent person,
(2) Used to be relieved from the position of a member by the Joint Owner General Meeting or removed from being a manager because of corruption or his conduct is detrimental or defective on morality.
(3)  Used to be dismissed, removed or discharged from a government service, government or private organization or agency on charge of misfeasance,
(4) Used to be imprisoned by final judgment except an offence committed through negligence or petty offence.

 

So basically dead, stupid or crooked.

 

With the above exceptions, committee members continue to be members until they are replaced by co-owner vote at a legal GM, and such a vote should take place at every other AGM ie every two years.

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