Jump to content
Thailand Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mr_hippo

Fake Degrees

Recommended Posts

aitch52    55

Mr H

I hope it all works out for you as I firmly believe you weren't the wrongdoer here. What is a degree anyway, a certificate showing you attended maybe 12 hours of lectures a week, 38 weeks of the year and 3 years and nine months of blowing your parents and the taxpayers money on booze and 3 months of cramming useless information into your rapidly decreasing brain cells for finals. All of which will be forgotten as soon as you pass the re-sit. What do I base these outrageous statements on, 5 years of housing students and frequent visits to the Students Union in the eighties. Posted tongue in cheek and no offence intended.

I sincerely wish you the very best and a happy outcome

Shippers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott    11,595

I think a degree is much more than a series of hours in a class and a waste of parents' and taxpayers' money. It generally means a level of competence in a field. Whether or not a degree is necessary or not to teach in Thailand is questionable--especially if it is English and the person is a native speaker.

For the people who have spent a considerable amount of time and money getting that degree and find themselves being paid the same or less than a house painter, it is disappointing. It is most disappointing when they openly brag about having gotten their degree on Khao San Road.

The point is that fake documents are fraud. Convincing the MOE that you have a number of diplomas and getting them to accept them is quite a bit different.

Like a lot of crimes, in the past couple of years, this one has come home to roost for a number of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is not agreed on is what is worse; submitting fake doccuments because you have been advised to by a place that you intend to work for and should count on to provide you with correct information, well, at least information that is lawful and will not make you end up behind bars, or, advising someone who intends to work for you, knowing that you are in a position that should give the correct advice, to obtain fake papers knowing that they could get in the shit for it.

I personally think the later is worse. Of course it is wrong to submit fake doccuments, but it is far worse for an employer to encourgae it (and especially dob someone in for taking their advice) IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott    11,595

Make no mistake--I absolutely agree that it is really very immoral for any employer or person in an administrative position to every advise anyone to do something illegal--especially something with serious consequences. Personally, people that do that should have certain anotomical parts cut off with a dull knife. Administrators are in a position which often leads employees to think the advise/instructions are correct.

The problem and the reason I am putting the ownership on the employee is because of the deniability of administrative personnel. Unless they put it in writing, or say it in front of a bunch of people, it's going to be very hard to make them accountable. They are certainly wrong and ethically challenged.

Since most Admin will never be 'caught' or convicted, the ownership is on the employees--and forums like this--to get the word out that this is a potentially serious problem, with potentially serious consequences.

The OP has been kind enough to expose his shortcomings, hopefully to help and inform others. For that I have a great deal of respect for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
phaethon    3

In today's Bangkok Post there was a piece about how police are nabbing people who turn up to pay traffic tickets for offences they committed years ago. In the article a motorist who turned up to pay a fine found he was wanted for dodging conscription years ago, it seems the BIB are starting to get the hang of computer systems and checking the central database. Once identified as an income stream, how long before bogus records start appearing?

When paying a traffic fine can end in your arrest

Bangkok Post 2009-05-11

Anyway, the OP could have found himself the victim of this new-found computer literacy, especially if it is extending to Immigration. Maybe his record of false documents languished unnoticed until someone at immigration this time actually checked the central police database instead of just saying they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Texpat    1

Actions and consequences.

My parents taught me this lesson before I was five. Some people will never get it -- you know who you are. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In today's Bangkok Post there was a piece about how police are nabbing people who turn up to pay traffic tickets for offences they committed years ago. In the article a motorist who turned up to pay a fine found he was wanted for dodging conscription years ago, it seems the BIB are starting to get the hang of computer systems and checking the central database. Once identified as an income stream, how long before bogus records start appearing?

When paying a traffic fine can end in your arrest

Bangkok Post 2009-05-11

Anyway, the OP could have found himself the victim of this new-found computer literacy, especially if it is extending to Immigration. Maybe his record of false documents languished unnoticed until someone at immigration this time actually checked the central police database instead of just saying they did.

It's about time. After all, that would normally happen anywhere in the world. It's like adding 1 plus 1? It should be that simple.

I know for a fact if I was wanted for murder and was the type who was doing a runner, I most definitely would not be going into a police station for any reason. Esepcially to pay a fine that would mean entering my name into a computer and possibly finding out other stuff...

That also just shows how stupid some people in Thailand are. Thinking that the cops cannot find out more about them when they go to pay a traffic fine...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BigSnake    0

WOW!! come after you five years later, sounds like the Immigration Police are on the war path, with all the IT on hand guess they don't have enough to do. Be warn ALL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
roamer    1,093
Thanks for being Honest and up front Mr Hippo.,,,,,

And I really hope everything works out ok for you.

Colino

In the UK it could have brought charges of Fraud and gaining money by deception.

Unless your an MP or in the House of Lords. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YouYouYou    0

Mr. Hippo, firstly, yer a stand up guy to put this thread on about yourself and I do hope it works out okay in the end. It's also amazing that this has come to bite you in the ass so long after the event. (keep all posted as to your outcome eh)

You often hear of stories of Farangs on fakes being nicked and everytime the employer gets off scot free. TIT ...there is no responsibility or accountability of these Thai employers, who most of the time are fully aware that it is fake from day one/ provided by the employer in the first place.

But, we all know using a fake degree is fraud and those who run the gauntlet I believe know that they are taking a risk. The police/immigration in general take a dim view of essentially being lied to.

As a bit of a wayward example:One friend, some 7 years ago reported to the police that his passport was stolen so he could apply for a new one at the UK embassy. He owed a Thai business partner money who was holding his passport as security (wrongly so as he was being cheated by his Thai partner, but that is aside the point). The Thai partner decided to take his passport to the police some weeks later and my friend was arrested and finally given 6 months in Prison. The police basically said 'you lied to us' about your passport ...that effectively was his charge considered as fraud.

'They' say something like 30% of foreign teachers in Thailand have a fake or no degree. that's a lot of risky people.

Be careful you crazy kids, just look at Mr. Hippos story ....it seems they're getting tough now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skybluestu    166

Not having a degree isn't the same as having a fake degree. I don't have a degree and have never said I have, my employer knew from the very start I don't have a degree but I still got a WP last year and renewed without a problem just yesterday. Although many schools ask for a degree it is not illegal to be working without one and is not the same as passing off a fake degree as a real one!

Mr. Hippo, firstly, yer a stand up guy to put this thread on about yourself and I do hope it works out okay in the end. It's also amazing that this has come to bite you in the ass so long after the event. (keep all posted as to your outcome eh)

You often hear of stories of Farangs on fakes being nicked and everytime the employer gets off scot free. TIT ...there is no responsibility or accountability of these Thai employers, who most of the time are fully aware that it is fake from day one/ provided by the employer in the first place.

But, we all know using a fake degree is fraud and those who run the gauntlet I believe know that they are taking a risk. The police/immigration in general take a dim view of essentially being lied to.

As a bit of a wayward example:One friend, some 7 years ago reported to the police that his passport was stolen so he could apply for a new one at the UK embassy. He owed a Thai business partner money who was holding his passport as security (wrongly so as he was being cheated by his Thai partner, but that is aside the point). The Thai partner decided to take his passport to the police some weeks later and my friend was arrested and finally given 6 months in Prison. The police basically said 'you lied to us' about your passport ...that effectively was his charge considered as fraud.

'They' say something like 30% of foreign teachers in Thailand have a fake or no degree. that's a lot of risky people.

Be careful you crazy kids, just look at Mr. Hippos story ....it seems they're getting tough now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Loaded    2,100
Not having a degree isn't the same as having a fake degree. I don't have a degree and have never said I have, my employer knew from the very start I don't have a degree but I still got a WP last year and renewed without a problem just yesterday. Although many schools ask for a degree it is not illegal to be working without one and is not the same as passing off a fake degree as a real one!

Did you have any complications due to the TL requirements? You mentioned on another thread a few months ago that imm had told your school their teachers would need TLs to extend visas/wps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skybluestu    166
Not having a degree isn't the same as having a fake degree. I don't have a degree and have never said I have, my employer knew from the very start I don't have a degree but I still got a WP last year and renewed without a problem just yesterday. Although many schools ask for a degree it is not illegal to be working without one and is not the same as passing off a fake degree as a real one!

Did you have any complications due to the TL requirements? You mentioned on another thread a few months ago that imm had told your school their teachers would need TLs to extend visas/wps.

A few months ago one of the Filipino teachers at my school said her housemate (Filipino teacher at a govt school) was refused an extension of her Non-Imm B visa as she didn't have a TL. So we asked the director at our school to ring the imm dept and ask about us needing one. They told him that they are now asking for a TL as well as the other documents when extending Non-Imm B visas. Our director has this week just received our waiver letters from the MOE in BKK and they are for 3 years, not the 2yr waiver I often read about so when I go to immigration in July I should be OK. BUT I know many people who have been to the same imm office recently and had their visa extended without a TL or waiver from the MOE. The TL or waiver letter isn't required when applying for a WP or WP extension, only at immigration. My WP was extended yesterday in about 5 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

BANGKOK 23 September 2017 21:42
Sponsors
×