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RDN

How To Type In Thai On A PC And Mac

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Doesn't work too well, does it?

No matter what I do I can't display the Thai I entered with the coding set to Western. I can display the other two Thai posts if I change the encoding to be the same as the one in which I entered it.

Oddly, Thai input works just fine in MSN Messenger and on other web sites. For example, my GF has been communicating in Thai with Kasikorn bank using their web forms and hasn't had to change the encoding at all (from default).

Any ideas?

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This is what I see when viewing using different character encoding methods as shown at the bottom of each column. I often see that people have encoded using UTF-8 which does not display correctly when I am viewing using any of the Thai character encodings.

results4qx.jpg

I don't know what the differences are between the three Thai encoding methods I have available. If you want me to try some other tests, I can do it (but it's a bit time consuming :o ).

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I don't know what the differences are between the three Thai encoding methods I have available. If you want me to try some other tests, I can do it (but it's a bit time consuming :o ).

Thanks for taking the time to do what you did and thanks for your offer. I think you've consumed enough of your time.

:D

Strange thing is, the only place we have trouble is with this forum. As I mentioned, every where else we use Thai script it seems to work OK (with the exception of some web-based e-mail).

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I don't know what the differences are between the three Thai encoding methods I have available. If you want me to try some other tests, I can do it (but it's a bit time consuming :o ).

Thanks for taking the time to do what you did and thanks for your offer. I think you've consumed enough of your time.

:D

Strange thing is, the only place we have trouble is with this forum. As I mentioned, every where else we use Thai script it seems to work OK (with the exception of some web-based e-mail).

I'm on a Mac system as well, and yes, this forum is not as straightforward as it could be. If you look at the HTML code you'll see that the page is set to <meta ... charset=iso-8859-1" />, rather than Thai, so I need to set Safari's encoding to "Thai (Windows, DOS)" to read any text *entered directly in Thai*. If I want to post Thai characters, the best way is to encode the page as Thai before typing your reply: if not, I can't guarantee that anyone -- even yourself -- will be able to read the post!

The reason I put the emphasis on text *entered directly in Thai* above is because that seems to be the default for Safari, whereas it appears that the Windows browser(s) most people use on this board (probably Internet Explorer?) input the text as XHTML Unicode Decimal Entities rather than text (so the page code stores the character kaw kai as "&#3585;" rather than "¡" ).

Personally, I'd rather the board was set to deliver pages in Thai encoding -- or better yet, Unicode, rather than Western, but really it's only a minor inconvenience. Anyone having display problems usually only needs to remember to manually change the encoding any time they want to read *some* of the Thai text -- that which people have entered as Thai characters -- or before they want to post anything in Thai.

By the way, if you're on Mac OS X, I'd really recommend you pop over to http://earthlingsoft.net/UnicodeChecker/index.html and download a program called "Unicode Checker". It's a wonderful little utility for finding out all sorts of information about unicode character sets, and can also do conversions between unicode text and HTML entities. It also adds an entry to the "Services" menu that can quickly do such conversions for you while you're in Safari.

So if you want, for example, you can type "ÇÑ´Õ¤ÃѺ " and have it converted to "

&#3626;&#3623;&#3633;&#3626;&#3604;&#3637;&#3588;&#3619;&#3633;&#3610; ", which are the equivalent HTML entities.

I hope this makes some kind of sense, and is of some help to others using Macs.

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Actually, I'm sorry, but I just noticed that (in my browser at least) the board mangled the text in my last message. When I typed สวัสดีครับ ( with that text this time converted to HTML character entities using the Unicode Checker service) it came out missing saw seua ... that is, as ÇÑ´Õ¤ÃѺ instead.

Oh well, that's computers for you! And I'm afraid I don't have time to experiment further to find out what's going on! The pages on this board are delivered in XHTML, though, and if I remember correctly the default encoding for XHTML is one of the Unicode version (UTF-8, perhaps?). So I guess the issue is something to do with all the possible confusion between Western, Thai and Unicode character sets ... not much fun, really!

At least I have Unicode Checker to fall back on!

:-)

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Ok. Let me try what i said to you before. I dont know Thai. So what ver i print will probably not make sense. But its just a test, Ok.

English

Hello!

Thai

หฟไฟกำำ าพีย

I think thats worked. this was done by just clicking on the EN on the bar at the bottom and changing to Thai.

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Ok. Let me try what i said to you before. I dont know Thai. So what ver i print will probably not make sense. But its just a test, Ok.

English

Hello!

Thai

Ë¿ä¿¡ÓÓ Ò¾ÕÂ

I think thats worked.  this was done by just clicking on the EN on the bar at the bottom and changing to Thai.

Hi Jockstar ... yes ... your method did work ... but you probably need to remember that not everyone uses Windows, which is what your procedure refers to. I'm afraid the issue that a few of us have been discussing in this thread is that with other operating systems (in our case, Macs) this forum isn't behaving quite the way it should.

As a matter of fact, we have a very similar easy way to change the script we type in, but in our case we choose a menu item at the top of the screen rather than clicking at the bottom. There are some other minor differences, but essentially we end up doing the same kind of thing as the people using Windows.

However, what is happening to Mac users (and maybe some others) while using this forum is that we're getting some rather curious behaviour that we don't normally run into on other forums, and unfortunately that unexpected behaviour is making things a bit more complicated for us than it should be. We're not likely to be anything other than a relatively small minority of forum members, however ... and there are workarounds, one of which I mentioned above ... but it is a little confusing, and maybe frustrating for some of us.

I really do wish that fixing the problem was just a matter of changing to Thai -- which is all that we normally need to do, just the same as Windows users -- but sadly for us there is something complicating what should be the simple kind of process you describe.

Personally, I think it's a combination of different browsers inputting characters using alternatives methods, as I tried to suggest in an earlier post, and some further subtle complications related to the pages delivered back from the ThaiVisa web server. But someone with greater technical understanding of the issues involved may be able to correct me on that, and hopefully suggest an easy solution.

Anyway, I'm sorry if we seem to be giving the impression that we're stupid or something, but really ... we're not! :-)

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Now to learn some Thai. And find out what Thai PattaChote is.

Believe Pattachote is the other option from Kedmanee you get with Windows XP and it designates what keyboard fonts you've got?

Not sure - perhaps RDN or someone with more extensive use of Thai fonts/keyboards could weigh in? :o

ºØ­ÁÕ

Pattachote is actually a different mapping of Thai characters to keys on the keyboard. The characters are all the same, but their position on the keyboard is different. It's the same kind of thing as the difference between our own standard "QWERTY" keyboard, and that alternative "Dvorak" keyboard some of you might have heard about.

My understanding is that a Thai government official invented Pattachote many years ago. After studying the relative frequency of Thai characters being used, he then created a new keyboard layout that was more logical, theoretically much quicker to use, and which put frequently-used characters in easy-to-reach places.

I believe that Pattachote was, at least for a while, supposed to be the official keyboard used by Thai government worker (and it may even still be), but it never really caught on, and everyone just sticks to the familiar old Ketmanee layout.

Apologies in advance if that's not quite right, but please: if anyone knows a different story, I'd love to know! :-)

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I don't know what the differences are between the three Thai encoding methods I have available. If you want me to try some other tests, I can do it (but it's a bit time consuming :o ).

TIS-620 does not have a character for 0xA0, which is non-breaking space in ISO-8859-11. Windows-874 has different mappings for 0x80 to 0x9F, including puctuation; ISO-8859-11 assigns these to C1 control characters, and MacThai uses them for kerning tone marks, maitaikhu and superscript vowels. Windows-874 and ISO-8859-11 are superscripts of TIS-620; MacThai conflicts for some of the Thai characters used only rarely, such as yamakkan, angkhankhu and khomut.

One problem with switching to the Thai encoding is that accented vowels, which Meadish Sweetball often uses to show the tone, will then become Thai characters!

It may be that Safari can't cope. Have you tried Firefox? Firefox works fine with this site under Windows XP. I've a feeling that the text sent via forms is not a well-defined area under the standards.

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Actually, I'm sorry, but I just noticed that (in my browser at least) the board mangled the text in my last message. When I typed ÇÑ´Õ¤ÃѺ ( with that text this time converted to HTML character entities using the Unicode Checker service) it came out missing saw seua ... that is, as ÇÑ´Õ¤ÃѺ instead.

Oh well, that's computers for you!

Very interesting posts Andrew. You never know, with all these tests that we are doing, we may be able to persuade the powers that be to change something to make this forum work better, or at least the same as most other forums.

I'd like to comment on two of your posts.

Firstly, your first post about the way the page code stores the character kaw kai. When I first read this in the "Notification email" from Thaivisa I didn't understand your point, because I could see two kaw kai Thai characters. So I went to Thaivisa in my Firefox browser and had a look, and I saw the ampersand, hash and number and then a kaw kai character! On the left is a screen shot from outlook express, and on the right is the forum page in Firefox with Thai Windows-874 encoding:

oevsie26uw.jpg

Strange huh?

Secondly, you are not the only one to lose the saw seua at the beginning of a Thai phrase. I think there's more to this than meets the eye! :o

Edit: Here's the link to the other occurrence of a missing saw seua: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=300475

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TIS-620 does not have a character for 0xA0, which is non-breaking space in ISO-8859-11.  Windows-874 has different mappings for 0x80 to 0x9F, including punctuation; ISO-8859-11 assigns these to  C1  control characters, and MacThai  uses them for kerning tone marks, maitaikhu and superscript vowels.  Windows-874 and ISO-8859-11 are superscripts of TIS-620; MacThai conflicts for some of the Thai characters used only rarely, such as yamakkan, angkhankhu and khomut.

One problem with switching to the Thai encoding is that accented vowels, which Meadish Sweetball often uses to show the tone, will then become Thai characters!

It may be that Safari can't cope.  Have you tried Firefox?  Firefox works fine with this site under Windows XP.  I've a feeling that the text sent via forms is not a well-defined area under the standards.

Thanks for those details, Richard. I'm having a bit of trouble with Firefox's encoding - I can't seem to make it stay with Thai ISO 8859-11. It kept changing back to Western 5889-1 (I think that was the one) so I've been a bit drastic and removed English from Tools / Options / General / Languages and also I have set Tools / View / Encoding / Auto Detect to "OFF".

If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?

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Thanks for those details, Richard. I'm having a bit of trouble with Firefox's encoding - I can't seem to make it stay with Thai ISO 8859-11. It kept changing back to Western 5889-1 (I think that was the one) so I've been a bit drastic  and removed English from Tools / Options / General / Languages and also I have set  Tools / View / Encoding / Auto Detect to "OFF".

The pages from this site are explicitly marked as being in the iso-8859-1 encoding! No 'auto-detection' is required!

If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?

One reason I've had no problems may be that I am using Windows XP. I have upgraded to Service Pack 2 (and am none to pleased to discover that IE now regards a lot of javascript as unsafe.)

Windows XP Settings:

Regional options: English (United Kingdom)

Location: United Kingdom

Language Settings:

Default: English (United-Kingdom) - United States - International

Other language/keyboard options set up:

English (United States) - US keyboard

Thai - Thai Kedmanee (non-ShiftLock)

Catalan - KhmerOS - Khmer Unicode Keyboard

Switch between input languages: Left Alt + Shift

Advanced Text Services: Neither extended nor switched off.

Something makes Notepad think that the ANSI encoding includes TIS-620!

Firefox 1.0 settings

Tools/Options/General/Languages/Languages: Empty

Tools/Options/General/Languages/Default character encoding: ISO-8859-1 (Western)

View/Character encoding - no special setting - I usually just let it drift, so it's currently showing ISO-8859-1. When I was viewing Yahoo groups pages, I set it to UTF-8, and it stayed there.

Which version of Firefox are you using?

I have had form problems - see Thai-Language Firefox Issues, and I'm not sure how they are consistent with the behaviour seen on ThaiVisa.com. The only problem I've had here iwth Firefox has been with fonts for Thai, which is a relatively minor issue. As a solution, I seem to have made Tahoma the default font for nearly everything!

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If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?

I tried the Mac version of Firefox and it was worse. I couldn't get it to display the Thai text in this thread no matter what encoding I set.

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The pages from this site are explicitly marked as being in the iso-8859-1 encoding!  No 'auto-detection' is required!
Yes, but I thought turning off auto-detect might stop it changing its encoding method. I had hoped it would stick to the method I specify in View / Character Encoding
If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?

One reason I've had no problems may be that I am using Windows XP. I have upgraded to Service Pack 2 (and am none to pleased to discover that IE now regards a lot of javascript as unsafe.)

Me too - WinXP SP2
Windows XP Settings:

Regional options:  English (United Kingdom)

Location: United Kingdom

Language Settings:

Default: English (United-Kingdom) - United States - International

Other language/keyboard options set up:

English (United States) - US keyboard

Thai - Thai Kedmanee (non-ShiftLock)

Catalan - KhmerOS - Khmer Unicode Keyboard

Switch between input languages: Left Alt + Shift

Advanced Text Services: Neither extended nor switched off.

Something makes Notepad think that the ANSI encoding includes TIS-620!

Firefox 1.0 settings

Tools/Options/General/Languages/Languages: Empty

Tools/Options/General/Languages/Default character encoding: ISO-8859-1 (Western)

View/Character encoding - no special setting - I usually just let it drift, so it's currently showing ISO-8859-1.  When I was viewing Yahoo groups pages, I set it to UTF-8, and it stayed there.

OK, I'll check all my settings against yours and see what happens when I change them. This'll probably take some time, so I doubt I'll post again tonight (er... this morning) :o
Which version of Firefox are you using?
Two minutes ago - literally - I upgraded my Firefox to 1.0.2 - I've been using 1.0.1 for a long time.
I have had form problems - see Thai-Language Firefox Issues, and I'm not sure how they are consistent with the behaviour seen on ThaiVisa.com.  The only problem I've had here with Firefox has been with fonts for Thai, which is a relatively minor issue.  As a solution, I seem to have made Tahoma the default font for nearly everything!

OK, I'll have a long play and report back tomorrow. Cheers! :D

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BANGKOK 18 November 2017 08:11
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