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Media Gag Order Sought For Thaksin's Asset Seizure Case

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tonglen    52
Gag order - well that's a shame. It's sad that governments (not just in Thailand) do not understand the importance of transparency..unless they have something to hide of course.. which again is a shame

totster :)

Before you say "that's a shame" - which it is - you should read who has asked for the "gag".

I think it says a lot about one man's "desire" for democracy and belief in freedom of speech.

You might even say he's "returning to type"...

How can you possibly say "it's one man's desire for democracy"! Would you please explain how a gag order connects to building and maintaining democracy?

I also see another interesting point; the arrogance of the Shin clan, they seem to still think that they are above the law, above everything, and as a clan they are entitled to some form of special treatment. Arrogance / elitism / arrogance / elitism. But wait a moment thaksin says he's fighting the elites and wants total democracy.

So much for thaksin's claim that he is the champion of democracy, and please note that democracy means (amongst other things) equal access to justice, equal application of justice, equal scrutiny, total freedom of the press, total freedom for all citizens to comment and to ask questions, etc etc etc.

Pure shin arrogance.

One more thought; well khun thaksin, I hope you are proud of how you have taken your children through hel_l, and how you have totally confused them about morals and values. Will they ever see another picture of how a civil society should work? Somehow I doubt it, what a shame!

I usually find myself agreeing with you but not this time.

The defendants have a right to ask for this. It is up to the courts to decide if it is proper to give or not

.

I agree that his children have the right to ask for anything they want. They can ask for a backrub and a tickle with a side order of world peace. Does not mean they will get it. As has been said earlier, let's hope the courts will adjudicate wisely. This could most certainly prove to be a blow to this constitutional monarchy. I will not ne surprised if the courts rule in favor of the Shinawatra's. Just a quick glance over to the USA will tell you that politicians will be, well, politicians. Liars, the lot of them, all of them. Republicans, democrats, right wingers, left wingers, conservatives, liberals, reds, yellows. The biggest untruth that has been foisted upon the people is that there is a difference in their moral fabric. Ther are is no such difference. It is illusory at best. Remember, it is only their agendas that make them different. They must think it rather amuzing as they recline in situ and watch our verbal rants over what is tantamount to the same lack of political morality. I am not saying some regimes are not more tainted than others, so please don't lambast me. I am also referring more to US politics, of which I am better acquainted with.

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Tigs    19

To be honest, in the interests of ensuring total justice is seen to be done I believe a gagging order is entirely appropriate. They happen all the time in the UK and nobody makes a fuss about democracy. The last thing Thailand needs is Thaksin finding any excuse to show a legal technicality may have cost him his assets. It could be shown that it was impossible for the judge to remain totally impartial if the story fills every news channel and news paper. Furthermore, the media reports are already inciting red shirt violence, so if a gag stops one member of the public from being hurt then it is worth it. We will all find out at the end of the month. Also, as much as we may hate to admit it, it is Thaksin on trial, not his children, for whom I imagine life is pretty difficult right now. Gag away i say.

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Credo    6,460

Courts will put a gag order for a number of reasons, one of which is to assure they are not unduly influenced.

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tonglen    52
To be honest, in the interests of ensuring total justice is seen to be done I believe a gagging order is entirely appropriate. They happen all the time in the UK and nobody makes a fuss about democracy. The last thing Thailand needs is Thaksin finding any excuse to show a legal technicality may have cost him his assets. It could be shown that it was impossible for the judge to remain totally impartial if the story fills every news channel and news paper. Furthermore, the media reports are already inciting red shirt violence, so if a gag stops one member of the public from being hurt then it is worth it. We will all find out at the end of the month. Also, as much as we may hate to admit it, it is Thaksin on trial, not his children, for whom I imagine life is pretty difficult right now. Gag away i say.

Add to the impossibility of judicial impartiality the same improbability of media impartiality. Impartial media coverage of political events? Don't think so. One could just look at the political leanings of CNN, MSNBC, FOX and the BBC.

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jdinasia    2,813
[quote name='jdinasia' post='3332211' date='2010-02-10 20:30:49'

I respect your opinion. Can I ask why you see a valid reasoning for the children to ask for a gag order?

I'm guessing you mean that anybody (rich or poor) can request a gag order. Is that part of what you are meaning, and is it actually provided for in the justive processes, and is it reality that a poor person's request for a gag order would be listened to?

Or are we in fact seeing another double standards example?

Oh, don't get me wrong ... I do NOT think it should be approved! I just think it is improper to cry about a defendant exercising their rights.

No, I do not think that the relative net-worth of a defendant is the issue. Gag orders are usually only approved in limited ways and either to protect the legal process itself or to protect victims etc. They (in most places) must meet the burden that approving a gag order does more benefit than harm. Harm usually being to the freedom of the press or transparency in the government (freedom of information).

Sorry Tigs I disagree --- in a case with this much significance I think it is vital to have as much information as possible open to public scrutiny. People are still crying that Thaksin got screwed over in the ratchada land case --- and that was so cut and dryed that any other verdict would have been shocking. (Was the case politically motivated? probably! Does that change Thaksin's guilt one iota? Nope!) You know how to avoid politically motivated convictions? Don't be guilty!

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animatic    4,436

Well one reason this came up is the lead prosecutor stated publicly

he planned to try and take everything. And that got lots of press and speculations.

I can agree with jdniasia; yes that have a right to ask for this gag order.

But I also agree that it is diametrically opposed to all the posturing that

Thaksin has been at with the Red Shirts and attempts to rebrand his

street riot army thugs into a mostly female democracy movement.

But it is pure Thaksin too.

This guy has tried to stifle ALL critique of himself and his business using all means at his disposal,

and often those of the state apparatus, and the whole point of this trial is that

he used state apparatus to further his aims and clan fortunes.

it is only fair that that same apparatus can be used to show up his deceptions,

and that it be an transparent and open process in the INVERSE of how he tried to do things.

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Jirapa    3

Errmmm? If any major foreign news broadcasters or agencies even care about this I'm sure we'll hear about it gag or not. I won't be loosing any sleep over it!

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HerbalEd    2,627
really, who bothers about the media speculations - they are there to sell more copies/sell more advertising time, so everything they write/broadcast has to be taken with a pinch of salt or just outright ignored

Given that main-stream media is a business and has to make a profit ... with your logic I guess you never trust anything any media has to say. Does this mean you never read or listen to the news?

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ding    102
Freedom of Press the Thai way?

A big :) and a red card to the court :D

They do it in America now. They remove cameras from court for trials. They barred pics of flag draped coffins of our fallen heroes being returned from Iraq. They said it was to protect the families but the families wanted us to honor their sacrifice. It was just so we didn't see the true cost of a BS war.

Odd if it is Taksins who want the gag. There were just be a pent up explosion of coverage afterward. The info starvation will feed that fire. Why would Thais cow to Taksin demands? The government must be worried about chaos. Will there be open record following or will we assume there are current officials with something to hide?

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Wombat6    474

I doubt whether any media speculation would influence the judges in the case but perhaps the government should have a look at where the finances of the children of Thaksin came from if they can afford to petition the supreme court. I don't think that it would be cheap to take this type of action

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jdinasia    2,813
I doubt whether any media speculation would influence the judges in the case but perhaps the government should have a look at where the finances of the children of Thaksin came from if they can afford to petition the supreme court. I don't think that it would be cheap to take this type of action

ummm they have lawyers (some of the best) ... they have money ..... a claim for almost 50 BILLION Baht ....

But what does it cost to file a motion with the court in which you are a defendant/plaintif? Priceless --- (nothing)

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h90    9,429
Freedom of Press the Thai way?

A big :) and a red card to the court :D

They do it in America now. They remove cameras from court for trials. They barred pics of flag draped coffins of our fallen heroes being returned from Iraq. They said it was to protect the families but the families wanted us to honor their sacrifice. It was just so we didn't see the true cost of a BS war.

Odd if it is Taksins who want the gag. There were just be a pent up explosion of coverage afterward. The info starvation will feed that fire. Why would Thais cow to Taksin demands? The government must be worried about chaos. Will there be open record following or will we assume there are current officials with something to hide?

they even jailed some reporter without seeing any court for reporting the wrong things.....I think these days a reuter report got released after 1.5 years.

So the ban for a few days is not such a big problem

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eggomaniac    0

Think about this, sorry if somebody already mentioned this aspect of the Topic, it would be HARD to find a new point of view or different speculation that is NOT already Posted in Thai Visa about the outcome of the court case.

They would have to order an audit of dozens of Topics and hundred of Posts to eradicate all past discussion of the Issue!

Somebody better get the Hi Lite pen out!!!!

***Regardless of the outcome of the court case, and regardless if Thaksin dies of a heart attack, or not, my research into the red movement reveals, in my opinion, it has reached 'critical mass' and is unstoppable under the present political set up in Thailand.

Remember thinking it will happen is not the same as hoping it will happen. It would just replace one family of crocodiles in the swamp with another set.

*** Let's put stars by the comments that will have to purged, to make it easier on the TV moderators, what say?

I have a wonderful plan that both sides agree with. Many Thais, reds, yellows and whites showed great acceptance of my ideas and emotion. Some even got teary eyed as I described the plan. <This is absolutely true.

The aboriginals of NA had the death penalty and I endeavor to live by that standard, even though dishonesty is 'wrongly' viewed as 'virtue' by politicians, lawyers, new people and educators. It HARD to be honest in this World.

My Plan is partly based on the 6 Nations system of democracy, only partly. There are elements which recognize the cultural and historical aspects of Thai Society.

I have recently read that Benjamin Franklin adopted elements of the oldest, 800 years, and most successful democratic system in World history.

he could have attained real genius status if the adopted the whole system of the 6 Nations.

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Publicus    7,064
[quote name=jdinasia' post='3332211' date='2010-02-10 20:30:49'

I respect your opinion. Can I ask why you see a valid reasoning for the children to ask for a gag order?

I'm guessing you mean that anybody (rich or poor) can request a gag order. Is that part of what you are meaning, and is it actually provided for in the justive processes, and is it reality that a poor person's request for a gag order would be listened to?

Or are we in fact seeing another double standards example?

Oh, don't get me wrong ... I do NOT think it should be approved! I just think it is improper to cry about a defendant exercising their rights.

No, I do not think that the relative net-worth of a defendant is the issue. Gag orders are usually only approved in limited ways and either to protect the legal process itself or to protect victims etc. They (in most places) must meet the burden that approving a gag order does more benefit than harm. Harm usually being to the freedom of the press or transparency in the government (freedom of information).

Sorry Tigs I disagree --- in a case with this much significance I think it is vital to have as much information as possible open to public scrutiny. People are still crying that Thaksin got screwed over in the ratchada land case --- and that was so cut and dryed that any other verdict would have been shocking. (Was the case politically motivated? probably! Does that change Thaksin's guilt one iota? Nope!) You know how to avoid politically motivated convictions? Don't be guilty!

Indeed, this is more Thaksin intimidation of the media and the courts for entirely personal reasons. The overwhelming consensus is that Thaksin will lose his loot. Discussion therefore of the how, when, why, who-all and the what are detrimental to Thaksin. He wants it stopped. Sending his childredn forward is but another cynical maneouver by Thaksin to front for his interests.

Yes, gag orders are issued in the UK (almost willy-nilly) and are issued in the US on occasion but often reversed (cancelled) on appeal. See link:

http://www.rcfp.org/newsitems/index.php?i=9850

........in respect to the Patriot Act of George W. Bush and the Republican controlled Congress of the time.

Freedom of the press is strong and alive in Thailand where a convicted fugitive former PM who was acting interim PM when he was deposed can blanket the country with his subversive publications and broadcast media. Remarkably so (perhaps suicidally so). The guy is free to publish and broadcast to overthrow the government and himself seize power. This is Amazing Thailand style freedom of speech, i.e., OTT freedom of speech.

Somebody has to gag Thaksin and gag him good.

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Trouble    1,025

Okay, this thread has now about 60 responses. 60 responses to an announcement in which ThaiVisa somehow thinks it is the only news source to this story. So much so that IF a gag order is given they won't be able to report and we should follow up on twitter or facebook. This was nothing more than advertising for their links to facebook and twitter. Does anyone really care about the endless speculation on what the courts final judgement will be. Let's just wait and see what the ruling is when they give it. Then everyone can put in their two cents worth of opinion.

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