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Pet Shops In Chatuchak Market To Be Registered : Bangkok

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I'd simply urge people to be careful with any pet purchase. After all the same puppy farms that supply many of the vendors at JJ also supply many of the more reputable shops around town. I don't think there are many pet stores anywhere in Thailand that care about who they are making a sale to. I don't think there are many that give much advice. I have yet to see one that promotes spay and neuter practices.

Most of the rest of it ... although "nice" ... well that is really about pushing Thailand into the Nanny-State category. If I had to pick something to be that concerned about it wouldn't be animals at JJ.

The clip that ended with the guy crawling along the pavement in JJ would be something that I would consider more important. Strange that people watched those videos and were concerned about things that weren't show and never mentioned the human having to drag himself along to beg money enough to feed himself!

Just because best practices aren't being adopted by many at Chatuchak, doesn't mean they shouldn't be. Why accept an irresponsible attitude that has a detrimental effect on human and animal welfare when there is a proven better way? Animal welfare (i.e. vaccinations, deworming, sterilsation) IS important to human welfare as the human rabies deaths show.

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beammeup    167

I bought 2 puppies there that my kids instantly fell in love with. Within 2 weeks they were both dead of distemper. It was sad and very tramatic for the kids. The problem is that they probably were still drinking mothers milk which protected them until we got them then they were vulnerable to whatever they picked up at the market. We were told that they had shots and they gave us some papers that could have been copies. If they were on the mothers milk when they get the shots it doesn't offer much protection as the anti-bodies in the milk interferes with the process. Although I don't believe in the nanny state thing there should be some government involvement to make sure that it is all humane.

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jdinasia    2,813
I bought 2 puppies there that my kids instantly fell in love with. Within 2 weeks they were both dead of distemper. It was sad and very tramatic for the kids. The problem is that they probably were still drinking mothers milk which protected them until we got them then they were vulnerable to whatever they picked up at the market. We were told that they had shots and they gave us some papers that could have been copies. If they were on the mothers milk when they get the shots it doesn't offer much protection as the anti-bodies in the milk interferes with the process. Although I don't believe in the nanny state thing there should be some government involvement to make sure that it is all humane.

Sorry that you went through that.

It really is vital to take ANY dog that you buy from ANY source in Thailand to a vet immediately. Even though I bought both dogs from the same vendor and the first was a year old when I bought the second one, I still took her straight to the vet.

The issue you are talking about is a common issue that can be run into at any petshop in Thailand but the vast numbers of pets there in JJ are an issue as well. Unless you want to shut down all pet stores in Thailand, you won't get past the issues that are created with puppy-mills here.

The only effective way to deal with JJ would be to have vets as part of the enforcement group and send them through with vaccinations and cameras and create paperwork for each dog right there.

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I bought 2 puppies there that my kids instantly fell in love with. Within 2 weeks they were both dead of distemper. It was sad and very tramatic for the kids. The problem is that they probably were still drinking mothers milk which protected them until we got them then they were vulnerable to whatever they picked up at the market. We were told that they had shots and they gave us some papers that could have been copies. If they were on the mothers milk when they get the shots it doesn't offer much protection as the anti-bodies in the milk interferes with the process. Although I don't believe in the nanny state thing there should be some government involvement to make sure that it is all humane.

Sorry that you went through that.

It really is vital to take ANY dog that you buy from ANY source in Thailand to a vet immediately. Even though I bought both dogs from the same vendor and the first was a year old when I bought the second one, I still took her straight to the vet.

The issue you are talking about is a common issue that can be run into at any petshop in Thailand but the vast numbers of pets there in JJ are an issue as well. Unless you want to shut down all pet stores in Thailand, you won't get past the issues that are created with puppy-mills here.

The only effective way to deal with JJ would be to have vets as part of the enforcement group and send them through with vaccinations and cameras and create paperwork for each dog right there.

Until the Thai authorities can regulate and set standards for pet sellers and breeders and show good enforcement through appropriate legislation (currently non existent) and policing, I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals, with Chatuchak at the top of the list. A vet visit is good advice when you become a new pet owner but Sadly that won't determine if the dog has the rabies virus (that can only be done post mortem), and Vaccinating a pup too late, e.g. one that is already incubating the distemper virus, won't help either. Chatuchak has long spread the canine viruses, now it is a host from deadly zoonotic diseases. I'm really sad that recent steps have been such a retroactive move.

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jdinasia    2,813

So Sherry would stop all sales of animals in Thailand?

I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals

wow ....

Guess there's no sense talking about it rationally huh? Sorry, but that really is a nanny-state move.

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So Sherry would stop all sales of animals in Thailand?
I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals

wow ....

Guess there's no sense talking about it rationally huh? Sorry, but that really is a nanny-state move.

Yes. The closure of markets/shops selling live animals until regulated and enforced, and animal welfare legislation in place. That's different from "stopping all sales of animals". According to the BMA in the report above, plans are in place, at least a regulatory process. (I would be less rational if it was my mum, son or daughter who had died of rabies.)

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So Sherry would stop all sales of animals in Thailand?
I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals

wow ....

Guess there's no sense talking about it rationally huh? Sorry, but that really is a nanny-state move.

As my round-up of this thread covering the rabies scare at Chatuchak market, all of us believe or have witnessed the wildlife trade there, all have witnessed or believe there are animal welfare and rights violations there (overcrowding, lack of food/water, animals too young, no vaccinations and basic health treatments, no "responsible pet ownership" messages), two people have bought healthy dogs and agree that not all sellers there are irresponsible but one admits there is no animal welfare element to the sales, at least one person in the thread has had 2 dogs die of distemper within a couple of weeks of buying them from Chatuchak (I know of others); at least one person has contracted and died of rabies, and many more (according to newspaper reports) are frighteningly being urged to vaccinate themselves and their animals within 5km radius of chatuchak. So, who wants to buy from Chatuchak pet section now, or should live animal sales in crowded markets be curtailed until properly regulated with enforcement in place? As for the nanny-state comments (an attempt to divert from the real issue I suspect), anyone who has ever lived in Thailand knows the country is completey at the other end of the spectrum from nanny states - and therein lies a whole set of social, economic and public health problems.

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toybits    1,901

Another knee jerk reaction. Someone has to die first (and the death published in the papers) before the government will act.

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robblok    19,895
So Sherry would stop all sales of animals in Thailand?
I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals

wow ....

Guess there's no sense talking about it rationally huh? Sorry, but that really is a nanny-state move.

As my round-up of this thread covering the rabies scare at Chatuchak market, all of us believe or have witnessed the wildlife trade there, all have witnessed or believe there are animal welfare and rights violations there (overcrowding, lack of food/water, animals too young, no vaccinations and basic health treatments, no "responsible pet ownership" messages), two people have bought healthy dogs and agree that not all sellers there are irresponsible but one admits there is no animal welfare element to the sales, at least one person in the thread has had 2 dogs die of distemper within a couple of weeks of buying them from Chatuchak (I know of others); at least one person has contracted and died of rabies, and many more (according to newspaper reports) are frighteningly being urged to vaccinate themselves and their animals within 5km radius of chatuchak. So, who wants to buy from Chatuchak pet section now, or should live animal sales in crowded markets be curtailed until properly regulated with enforcement in place? As for the nanny-state comments (an attempt to divert from the real issue I suspect), anyone who has ever lived in Thailand knows the country is completey at the other end of the spectrum from nanny states - and therein lies a whole set of social, economic and public health problems.

Im happy living here dont turn it into a nanny state. Yuck i dislike animal cruelty but i do dislike people who try to push their western ideas on Thais like this.

Just like the people who get worked up about childeren on motorbikes without helmets.. its not that the people dont want it. Its just that ther is no money for it.

Its easy looking down at people when you got money, when you have money you can have ideals. As the income of Thais raises other things will change too.. you cant change things from one side.

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jdinasia    2,813
So Sherry would stop all sales of animals in Thailand?
I support the notion of closure of markets/shops selling live animals

wow ....

Guess there's no sense talking about it rationally huh? Sorry, but that really is a nanny-state move.

Yes. The closure of markets/shops selling live animals until regulated and enforced, and animal welfare legislation in place. That's different from "stopping all sales of animals". According to the BMA in the report above, plans are in place, at least a regulatory process. (I would be less rational if it was my mum, son or daughter who had died of rabies.)

I don't think you could get less rational if you think that all shops selling animals kingdom-wide should be closed until your version of animal welfare laws are in place. To expect or even desire that people go out of business here to fit your concept of animal welfare just isn't rational or reasonable.

Again --- this is Thailand (Asia) not Europe or North America. I applaud some measure being implemented to help with problems but again I welcome rational people to look again at the videos posted and see if they are seeing the problems claimed by people in this thread. I for one wouldn't hestitate to buy from the same vendor I have bought from in the past. I have taken friends to see him too. Not a horror story to be told.

You will also note that people have bought animals from other places and had them die of distemper ... and the number of rabies infected animals wandering around Thailand is huge. A great place to start would be actually promoting HUMAN health by promoting vaccinating animals that are wandering the streets.

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I had an unfortunate experience buying two Bangkaew puppies from Chatuchak in January. I went to a shop that appeared to be reputable, with credentials, who claimed to have experience preparing dogs to be taken overseas. We selected the two puppies we wanted, payed a down payment, as well as the money for the dogs to be fully vaccinated, microchipped, dewormed, and for their pedigree papers. We also paid the shop owner to keep the puppies for us, as we were staying in a hotel, and could not keep them there

We had nothing but trouble from that moment. First one of the puppies got sick, and then the other. On the day we were scheduled to take the dogs, the shopkeeper said that they were both sick, and brought us two other dogs. The pedigrees he gave us showed that the dogs were so closely related we couldn't possibly breed them, as we had planned, so he changed the pedigree papers. When I said that that was not acceptable, and questioned the validity of any of the pedigree papers, he became threatening and aggressive. So we said that we would take our money back and leave the dogs, but he refused to do that. In the end we had no choice but to take the dogs. I am also pretty sure that the rabies vaccination certificates and veterinary certificates he gave us were false as well. The vaccination stickers were misspelled for one, and no veterinarian would have given a health certificate to puppies which had not been dewormed or vaccinated.

The dogs came on the plane with us, and one of them was sick for the entire trip, from what later turned out to be parvovirus, which he should have been vaccinated for. Parvovirus kills 80% of the puppies that contract it, and although the first sick puppy recovered from the parvo, the second puppy also contracted it, and sadly died. Then the first puppy became sick again. He was infected with several species of intestinal worms, as well as coccidia and giardia, all of which can be transmitted to people and other animals. Although I treated him for those problems, he ultimately became sick and died of distemper, another disease that he should have been vaccinated against.

I am very disappointed in the way this turned out, as well as angry at a breeder and pet shop owner who treats his animals with so little care. It begs the question of how many hundreds of dogs die because they are not vaccinated adequately, or cared for properly. I'm also concerned for the breeding standards demonstrated. If a breeder has so little concern for promoting healthy breeding and bloodlines, the breeds will soon become either inbred or crossbred, neither of which are desirable outcomes. The Bangkaew, for one, is a national Thai treasure, and the people who are responsible for breeding the dogs should have enough respect for the breed and the individual dogs to take the inexpensive precautionary measures to protect them from such avoidable diseases as my two puppies died from.

I am in the process of drafting a letter to the Thai Kennel Club, which is supposedly where the pedegrees were issued. I will also be sending them a copy of the (probably false) pedigrees, and a letter from my veterinarian here. I don't know if they can do anything about the problems, but I would urge anyone else who has had similar problems, to do the same. The time has never been more ripe for a crackdown on pet shops in Chatuchak, which despite having the potential to be a well managed area of trade, have turned themselves into a disgrace to breeders.

I hope to obtain a breeding pair of Bangkaews in the future. They are fantastic dogs, and I think that more of the world should have the opportunity to experience Bangkaew ownership. But I can certainly tell you that next time I attempt to import dogs, I will go about it in an entirely different way.

If anyone is interested, the name of the shop from which I obtained the unfortunate puppies was << xxxxx >>. I don't have the name of the owner. I would highly recommend NOT buying ANY animals from this shop.

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Nienke    198
Dog dies of rabies despite vaccination

A dog kept as a house pet in the north died of rabies this week despite having been vaccinated against it, an incident that could signal a turning point in the spread of the disease.

The 6-year-old boxer on Moshav Kfar Baruch, which died Tuesday, was the first dog in Israel known to die of rabies despite having received the inoculation. The dog had been receiving regular vaccinations for the past five years.

Roni Ozeri, deputy director of the veterinary services unit of the Agriculture Ministry, said the case was a matter of concern.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152227.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7169305?dopt=Abstract

Canine rabies in Nigeria, 1970 - 1980 reported cases in vaccinated dogs.

Okoh AE.

From 1970 through 1980, 14 cases of rabies in vaccinated dogs, were reported in various parts of Nigeria. All the dogs (100%) were owned, and adult (93%); most demonstrated furious behaviour (64%), and had exposure to humans (43%). A history of vaccination was reported for 1200 dogs. Of the 14 cases there were 10 cases of apparent vaccine failure involving modified live (low egg passage chick embryo) vaccine in use during the study period. In 4 of these cases, infection may actually have been induced by the vaccine. Surveillance should be heightened to monitor efficacy of vaccines in current use in the country.

Dr. Ronald D. Schultz, Professor and Chair Department of Patho-biological Sciences School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison has done research on the duration of immunity of Canine vaccines:

http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm

...Since the mid 1970's we have done a variety of studies with various canine vaccines to demonstrate their duration of immunity. From our studies it is apparent, at least to me, that the duration of immunity for the four most important canine vaccines (core vaccines) that the duration of immunity is considerably longer than one year....

Table 1: Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines

The rottweiler that died was, if I'm not mistaken, 3 year old. Did the dog receive only 1 Rabies vaccine or did the dog receive its puppy vaccines and after that its annual boosters?

If the dog received the puppy vaccines and annual boosters, does that means that ALL the vaccines were false or no good? Is it possible that this dog contracted Rabies from the vaccine? Were the Rabies vaccines made of modified live or killed viruses? Not sure if MLV Rabies vaccines are sold in Thailand.

The puppies, bought by the unfortunate lady, did they die from Rabies as well? I didn't see anything mentioned in the news reports of what exactly the puppies died, only that they died. And if they died from Rabies, did they contracted it from the mother dog or from the rottweiler?

Many questions.

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phetaroi    74
As my round-up of this thread covering the rabies scare at Chatuchak market, all of us believe or have witnessed the wildlife trade there, all have witnessed or believe there are animal welfare and rights violations there (overcrowding, lack of food/water, animals too young, no vaccinations and basic health treatments, no "responsible pet ownership" messages), two people have bought healthy dogs and agree that not all sellers there are irresponsible but one admits there is no animal welfare element to the sales, at least one person in the thread has had 2 dogs die of distemper within a couple of weeks of buying them from Chatuchak (I know of others); at least one person has contracted and died of rabies, and many more (according to newspaper reports) are frighteningly being urged to vaccinate themselves and their animals within 5km radius of chatuchak. So, who wants to buy from Chatuchak pet section now, or should live animal sales in crowded markets be curtailed until properly regulated with enforcement in place? As for the nanny-state comments (an attempt to divert from the real issue I suspect), anyone who has ever lived in Thailand knows the country is completey at the other end of the spectrum from nanny states - and therein lies a whole set of social, economic and public health problems.

While I understand your concerns, and agree that those problems need to be solved, I think there's a huge disconnect between your statement that, "anyone who has ever lived in Thailand knows the country is completey at the other end of the spectrum from nanny states - and therein lies a whole set of social, economic and public health problems" and not realizing that your solution is completely at the other end of the spectrum from what most people would think is wise. You are as extreme as the lousy pet vendors. And, just a nick away from being a PITA-ist.

And, it is irresponsible advocacy such as yours that actually lead others to react too strongly against what they see as the "nanny-state" issue.

There is a middle ground, and that's what most often needs to be advocated. It's sort of comparable to one of my pet peeves in Thailand -- motorcycles legally able to drive on the sidewalk. Your solution would appear to be outlaw all motorcycles, when all that really needs to be done is to legislate (and then uphold) laws to get motorcycles off the sidewalk.

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I am glad to see some positve action being taken at JJ. I have been overwhelmingly happy with both dogs that we have bought there. They were from a 'real' shop that was enclosed and airconditioned and have been very happy healthy animals.

I am glad that the story also indicates that pet shops in other areas will have some regulation as well. People that decry ever buying an animal at JJ seem to be unaware that the same puppy farms sell to shops all over!

A simple reminder to anyone buying a pet anywhere in Thailand; Immediately go to a vet you trust and get the animal examined and vaccinations or boosters given!

I bought a pair of Shih Tzu's from a 'proper shop' called Happy Dog (air conditioned and enclosed). Both were from the same litter (or so I was told), male and female. The female died within a week, and the male is very weak. Not eating much. A vet told me the female had an infection of the intestine, as the poor dog could not poop. However, I'm not sure of the Vet's credentials (Borabu, Isaan) as he didn't seem to check much and just filled the poor dog up with food from a drip, which probably helped spped the process up some. I was not allowed to video at all in the pet shop areas of Chatuchak market. I've since been told not to buy any puppy from there that's less than 3 mths old. This way you can be sure of survival.

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I bought 2 puppies there that my kids instantly fell in love with. Within 2 weeks they were both dead of distemper. It was sad and very tramatic for the kids. The problem is that they probably were still drinking mothers milk which protected them until we got them then they were vulnerable to whatever they picked up at the market. We were told that they had shots and they gave us some papers that could have been copies. If they were on the mothers milk when they get the shots it doesn't offer much protection as the anti-bodies in the milk interferes with the process. Although I don't believe in the nanny state thing there should be some government involvement to make sure that it is all humane.

I was advised by a Thai not to buy any puppies below 3 mths old. I've had a similar problem. Sorry about yours.

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BANGKOK 25 September 2017 00:39
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