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george

Veera Sentenced To Eight Years In Cambodian Jail

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Sounds like the Cambodians are trying to provoke the Thais. Will be interesting to see how the Thais respond...

Or conversely, and likely more correctly, to warn the Thais to stop provoking them.

That's it animatic. Good point, well made.

The Thais are playing a dangerous political game. It's not just the PAD engineering this spat; the Army are involved and probably Abhisit's government I wonder if this could all be connected to the possible postponement of the election, due to proposed electoral changes not being ready, that was mooted today. A military stand off with a neighbouring country could seal it: The military are still afraid of Abhisit losing despite closing down all the Puea Thai TVand Radio Stations and banning from politics or jailing most of the party leaders who can string more than 2 sentences together.

Instead of worring about a 100m stretch of border that might be at issue, why not concentrate on lifting the economy of the major part of the Isaan that the Thais do control out of abject poverty?

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Unusual for you Buchholz a liitle sympathy for our intruder friends. Maybe a colour of your liking. I agree why charge some with more serious charges...just <deleted> shoot them all and have done with it. Waste of space army sponsored nationalists.

Shoot them all? Sorry can't have that. Before you know it the PAD / TPN will get Amsterdam & Peroff LLP to file a case against the government to demonstrate that a substantial basis exists to believe that the following international crimes within the ambit of the ICC were committed in connection with the suppression of the RedYellow Shirt demonstrations ... bla, bla, blablabla ....

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Any information on the specifics of the espionage conviction?

In what form did the spying take? What secret information were they gathering?

What did these 2 do that was different from the 5 that were with them the whole time and were only found guilty of trespassing?

I thought they were repeat offenders.

They've never been convicted of espionage before, only trespassing.

In fact, I'd be curious if any Thai has previously been convicted of espionage anywhere, let alone a man and woman spy team.

And add, has anyone from any country ever been previously convicted of espionage by Cambodia?

Out of curiosity why are you all of a sudden defending people who have no good intentions. They both knew it was a piece of Cambodian territory they were interning. They knew before hand that there were causing trouble and yet they went. What possible good could this type of action do Thailand?

Buchholz

you are normally good at research. Instead of trying to defend them why don't you go over the records of the trial and find out why they were convicted.

for myself I believe they deserved the time even if they weren't spying. We have the yellow shirts actively pursuing war and these clowns pull a stunt like that. And why did they do it on a military base?

Being as it was there second offense they had to know Cambodia would not turn the cheek a second time.

Don't know where you come from but where I come from there is a saying. [if you can't do the time don't do the crime]

It is one thing to play there silly little games in Thailand. (where it is becoming the national pastime) But to deliberately and illegally play it in another country if not doing espionage for Thailand it could be considered treason trying to get Thailand into trouble on the international scene. Just a thought but give it a little bit of consideration.B)

I'm only curious as to what on Earth they could possibly be convicted of regarding espionage. I'm not defending their trespassing.

I don't see that is so wrong that criminal action has the appropriate penalty adjudicated, but 8 years for crossing an unmarked/disputed border is taking the piss, even for a repeat offender.

8 years is certainly a reasonable punishment for a true case of espionage, but there is a distinct dearth of information available as to exactly what form that espionage took.

Typically espionage is conducted to uncover military secrets. Does Cambodia have military secrets in this area? What is this military base you speak of? As far as I can see from the various videos that were filmed, the area showed was a dismal dusty farmland with not much else.

The other discrepancy involved in this case is that it was a group of 7 that were all traveling together. I've not read any reports that the 2 broke off from the other 5 and went somewhere else. If that's the case, why were only these 2 charged with espionage?

This wasn't their second case of espionage, only trespassing.

As said, they shouldn't have gone there, but to punish them with fake charges of espionage is just bogus. To send them off to prison for that length of time is even more bogus. They aren't the Rosenbergs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

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just <deleted> shoot them all and have done with it

Your intelligent contribution is duly noted and discarded.

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just <deleted> shoot them all and have done with it

Your intelligent contribution is duly noted and discarded.

Only having a larf . Dont shoot em... just pray they were trespassing in a minefield

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just <deleted> shoot them all and have done with it

Your intelligent contribution is duly noted and discarded.

Only having a larf . Dont shoot em... just pray they were trespassing in a minefield

Sorry to disappoint your lust for blood, but they walked along the same dirt road the other 5 did and the one the villagers use.

but apparently somewhere along this unfenced, unguarded dusty trail exists a secret Cambodian military base. :rolleyes:

.

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Unusual for you Buchholz a liitle sympathy for our intruder friends. Maybe a colour of your liking. I agree why charge some with more serious charges...just <deleted> shoot them all and have done with it. Waste of space army sponsored nationalists.

Why indeed? Surely you haven't done a Rubi and rediscovered the old yellow polo shirt beneath a pile of dust in your closet?

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Taksin has been rather too cosily in bed with the Cambodians and Burmese to fairly represent Thai interests. More a case of putting his business interests ahead of his real priorities when he was PM. Which begs the question: is he really a patriot? Also the 2000 border agreement thing was instigated by him because of his (sic. conflict of interest) business with Cambodia. I do remember there was a lot of controversy about it at the time.

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I'm only curious as to what on Earth they could possibly be convicted of regarding espionage. I'm not defending their trespassing.

I don't see that is so wrong that criminal action has the appropriate penalty adjudicated, but 8 years for crossing an unmarked/disputed border is taking the piss, even for a repeat offender.

8 years is certainly a reasonable punishment for a true case of espionage, but there is a distinct dearth of information available as to exactly what form that espionage took.

Typically espionage is conducted to uncover military secrets. Does Cambodia have military secrets in this area? What is this military base you speak of? As far as I can see from the various videos that were filmed, the area showed was a dismal dusty farmland with not much else.

The other discrepancy involved in this case is that it was a group of 7 that were all traveling together. I've not read any reports that the 2 broke off from the other 5 and went somewhere else. If that's the case, why were only these 2 charged with espionage?

This wasn't their second case of espionage, only trespassing.

As said, they shouldn't have gone there, but to punish them with fake charges of espionage is just bogus. To send them off to prison for that length of time is even more bogus. They aren't the Rosenbergs.

http://en.wikipedia....Ethel_Rosenberg

Wasn't the salient point that they were in possession of the video camera? A lot of countries get touchy about filming around military bases. As for the " dismal dusty farmland," what else is there for 50 miles in any direction?

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Sorry to disappoint your lust for blood, but they walked along the same dirt road the other 5 did and the one the villagers use.

but apparently somewhere along this unfenced, unguarded dusty trail exists a secret Cambodian military base. :rolleyes:

Probably a leftover and forgotten part of the infamous HoChiMinh trail ;)

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The 7 traveled together into Cambodia's territory for 150 feet or so. 5 are sent on their way with a $250 fines... the other two are sent to prison for 8 and 6 years? Guilty of trespassing, yes. Guilty of espionage? phffft.

There are hundreds of thousands of illegal Cambodians in Thailand, and they go a lot further in than 150 feet. Wonder if this will provoke a backlash against them. They can use Burmese and Lao workers just as easily

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I'm only curious as to what on Earth they could possibly be convicted of regarding espionage. I'm not defending their trespassing.

I don't see that is so wrong that criminal action has the appropriate penalty adjudicated, but 8 years for crossing an unmarked/disputed border is taking the piss, even for a repeat offender.

8 years is certainly a reasonable punishment for a true case of espionage, but there is a distinct dearth of information available as to exactly what form that espionage took.

Typically espionage is conducted to uncover military secrets. Does Cambodia have military secrets in this area? What is this military base you speak of? As far as I can see from the various videos that were filmed, the area showed was a dismal dusty farmland with not much else.

The other discrepancy involved in this case is that it was a group of 7 that were all traveling together. I've not read any reports that the 2 broke off from the other 5 and went somewhere else. If that's the case, why were only these 2 charged with espionage?

This wasn't their second case of espionage, only trespassing.

As said, they shouldn't have gone there, but to punish them with fake charges of espionage is just bogus. To send them off to prison for that length of time is even more bogus. They aren't the Rosenbergs.

http://en.wikipedia....Ethel_Rosenberg

Wasn't the salient point that they were in possession of the video camera? A lot of countries get touchy about filming around military bases. As for the " dismal dusty farmland," what else is there for 50 miles in any direction?

What of the other people videoing in the group?

Are the videos of their escapades into the territory and posted on youtube classified secret Cambodian military information?

I agree that there doesn't seem to be but dismal dusty farmland in that whole area, so where is the military base that is supposedly being spied on and what activities were the spy team recording? Those are some of the rather basic questions that I've not seen published anywhere. The want the world to believe that this area less than a football field length into their territory and that is unguarded, unfenced... is a secret military base worthy of being spied on? Hmmmm... I'm having difficulty digesting that one.

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The 7 traveled together into Cambodia's territory for 150 feet or so. 5 are sent on their way with a $250 fines... the other two are sent to prison for 8 and 6 years? Guilty of trespassing, yes. Guilty of espionage? phffft.

There are hundreds of thousands of illegal Cambodians in Thailand, and they go a lot further in than 150 feet. Wonder if this will provoke a backlash against them. They can use Burmese and Lao workers just as easily

Indeed... and Thailand just repatriated 199 Cambodians back to Cambodia the other day.

As you say, if they escalate this into a "confine all illegal entrants on both sides of the border", there will be a lot more Cambodians than Thais being confined.

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espionage [ˈɛspɪəˌnɑːʒ ˌɛspɪəˈnɑːʒ ˈɛspɪənɪdʒ]

n

1. the systematic use of spies to obtain secret information, esp by governments to discover military or political secrets

2. the act or practice of spying

[from French espionnage, from espionner to spy, from espion spy, from Old Italian spione, of Germanic origin; compare German spähen to spy]

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

The act or practice of spying or of using spies to obtain secret information, as about another government or a business competitor.

[French espionnage, from espionner, to spy, from Old French espion, spy, from Old Italian spione, of Germanic origin; see spek- in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

The act of obtaining, delivering, transmitting, communicating, or receiving information about the national defense with an intent, or reason to believe, that the information may be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation. Espionage is a violation of 18 United States Code 792-798 and Article 106, Uniform Code ofMilitary Justice. See also counterintelligence.

Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. US Department of Defense 2005.

It seems that only the US Department of Defense says the definition of espionage applies exclusively to military matters, whereas other authorities have a slightly broader definition. Perhaps the definition in Cambodian law is of a broader, and seemingly more common variety.

Hope this helps.

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A real shot across those nationalists bows.

No all that surprising since he is a repeat offender and

was making an obvious point of breaking the Cambodian laws.

Now his full amount of time becomes a bargaining chip.

No matter what it will not be short, but not the full 8 in all likelihood.

PAD and TPN must be apoplectic this evening.

Mabye long enough to be fluent in Khmer?:whistling:

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BANGKOK 22 July 2017 16:05
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