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george

Veera Sentenced To Eight Years In Cambodian Jail

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And now according to today's Thai Rath newspaper they want to demolish the Khmer temple.

Rule # 1

Don't believe everything you read...and I know you stated 'according to....'. ;)

Eight years is far too long. The sentence is a political statement. Sadly, pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc. probably get less time, unless it is a politically motivated arrest and sentence. In general, I like Cambodia and its citizens very much but the government is so very corrupt!

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It is a good lesson for a repeat offender. He was arrested before did not got the warning and was out to cause a diplomatic row. I cannot suppress a smile, especially now the people he relied on to make a noise like Suthep and the somewhat strange army commander say that they have accept the term. A typical case of Som Nam Naa

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Related topic:

PAD Gives 3-Day Ultimatum To Govt To Bring Back 2 Thais

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Govt to Pursue Help for Two Jailed in Cambodia

The deputy prime minister in charge of national security urges the People's Alliance for Democracy not to blow up the issue of the two Thai activists jailed in Cambodia as it could intensify conflicts between Thailand and Cambodia.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban expressed disappointment over Cambodian court's sentencing of Weera Somkwamkid and Ratree Pipatanapaiboon for border trespassing and espionage.

However, he would not criticize the Cambodian judicial standards and reiterated that the government will continue to find ways to help the two detained Thais.

Suthep added the Thai government believes that the rising tension between the two countries would disrupt the Thai-Cambodian ties.

However, he said Thailand will continue to negotiate with Cambodia and he believed the tense situation will soon subside.

The deputy PM reiterated that the two activists are still able to file an appeal with the Cambodian upper courts and a royal pardon request is entirely up to their choice.

Suthep said he is aware that the situation needs to be handled with care so that it will not cause further rifts between the two countries.

He went on to say that security officials have been ordered to closely watch Government House, Parliament, the Foreign Ministry and the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok after there have been threats of possible disturbance there.

Asked about the Cambodian government's refusal to take down the flag at the Kaew Sikha Khiri Sawara Temple, the deputy PM said Cambodia has the rigth to do so because the two countries may have differect interpretation on the matter and that the temple was built after the 2000 memorandum of understanding was signed.

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-- Tan Network 2011-02-02

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What could he possibly be spying on there? Seeing if there were cambodian troops? We already know there were. Espionage is a ridiculous charge. Something interesting will happen because of this.

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Government pledges to continue helping two Thais jailed in Cambodia

BANGKOK, Feb 2 -- Thailand's Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban on Wednesday said he was disappointed that the Cambodian court handed down quite harsh sentences against two Thai citizens for illegal entry, trespassing into a military area and spying charges but the Thai government would continue helping them.

Mr Suthep said he believed the verdict would not affect bilateral relations between the two neighbouring countries and urged the Yellow Shirt activists of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) not to incite violence. Nonetheless, he said the government has no plan to disperse the protesters.

He also instructed officials to step up security at government offices including Government House, Parliament and the Cambodian embassy in Bangkok.

The Phnom Penh Municipal Court on Tuesday handed down an eight-year jail term and a 1.8 million riel (US$450) fine for Veera Somkwamkid, a coordinator of Thai Patriots Network, and a six-year jail term and a 1.2 million riel (US$300) fine for his secretary Ratree Pipattanapaiboon finding them both guilty of espionage, illegal entry and trespassing in a military zone.

The pair was told they can appeal within 30 days.

Mr Suthep said the legal procedures were not over yet as the pair could appeal and the Thai government would give full support to help them.

The verdict should not be drawn to intensify the rift between Thailand and Cambodia as Thailand should live with the neighbouring country peacefully, said the deputy prime minister.

As for the request for a possible royal pardon, Mr Suthep said it would depend on Mr Veera and Ms Ratree themselves to make such a decision, but if they decided so the government would facilitate and discuss it with Cambodian authorities.

He affirmed that the relations between Thailand and Cambodia are still at a level at which amends can be made.

The deputy prime minister commented as the PAD threatened to mobilise more supporters Saturday to step up pressure on the government to help free Mr Veera and Ms Ratree.

The PAD has encamped near Government House since Tuesday to protest the government's handling of the border disputes with Cambodia. (MCOT online news)

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-- TNA 2011-02-02

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Espionage could easily be drawn from his stated intent of trying to get information on Cambodia territory, that Cambodians would say are intended to harm Cambodian National Interests. There is also economic espionage and that is illegal also in most countries. Examples being PRC Chinese trying to get info on computer advances, technologies in general, missal info and defense capabilities from USA. Cambodia can make a reasonable argument that Veera had intent to discover similar 'defense capabilities, or economic information. Makes little difference how much money is involved.

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There is also economic espionage and that is illegal also in most countries. Examples being PRC Chinese trying to get info on computer advances, technologies in general, missal info and defense capabilities from USA. Cambodia can make a reasonable argument that Veera had intent to discover similar 'defense capabilities, or economic information. Makes little difference how much money is involved.

Yes, Cambodia clearly has to protect their vital dirt farm industry

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A few years back a bunch of Iranian diplomats were expelled from the US for taking pics of bridges etc in NY. It always depends who you are, what you represent or are perceived as representing and where you are from.

Posturing

Precisely

He was without portfolio, on his own, entering internationally disputed territory claimed by both another country and his own.

it was not an official delegation pre-arranged through diplomatic channels to find facts, he did it on his own.

It was a military area, and this was stated well before, and he entered it and took pictures.

A military area need not be fenced in to still be a military area.

He entered an area he knew to be controlled by a foreign power,

while disputing that countries control, with no authority to do so.

He is known to be publicly hostile to Cambodia and to dispute Cambodia's sovereignty of the land.

There are so many reasons for them to slap him down hard it's astounding he didn't get MORE TIME.

PAD of course are going ballistic over this, but he made his own bed and must join the bedbugs for some time.

Exactly. I feel this post should answer all questions about his charge and conviction. He kicked the dog and the dog bit him.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

Impunity works so much better when the courts, government, and institutions you'll encounter are your own, not some foreign nation's.:violin:

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And now according to today's Thai Rath newspaper they want to demolish the Khmer temple.

That's the best idea I've heard since this pissing contest started. Let's see if they want to fight over the rubble. Probably, the idiots!

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Funny thing is, Arisman could be charged with a very similar offence, pity the Cambodian security apparatus is less effective at finding and jailing him. The Cambodian legal system is a joke really, so if you're going to play a high stakes game of crossing into disputed territory this is what you get.

8 Years for allegedly spying? How many years for being a Khmer Rouge leader accused of murdering thousands?

allegedly, : a highly placed policeman friend of mine said Arisman was dead

they say he was shot in Cambodia by his own reds to stop him turning when he was caught

If they could convince Thai authorities of that, they would stop looking for him. Smokescreen until his body is shown.

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I didn't mean to imply that I believed the Cambodian charges were posturing, rather that the context of who the guy was, where he was going, the intent of what he was doing, and the fact that he recorded it, possibly covertly, opens him up very easily to the accusation of espionage.

Not so covertly if it ended up on youtube with a video of him with a palmcorder in his hands. Ratree is also shown with a camera in this video.

But who was filming the two of them filming? How did that person escape a prison sentence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMwxh0zjX1M&feature=related

I can see how one might mistake the dry scrubland for dry scrubland and not the secret base it really is.

Maybe the person videoing was Cambodian

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I didn't mean to imply that I believed the Cambodian charges were posturing, rather that the context of who the guy was, where he was going, the intent of what he was doing, and the fact that he recorded it, possibly covertly, opens him up very easily to the accusation of espionage.

Not so covertly if it ended up on youtube with a video of him with a palmcorder in his hands. Ratree is also shown with a camera in this video.

But who was filming the two of them filming? How did that person escape a prison sentence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMwxh0zjX1M&feature=related

I can see how one might mistake the dry scrubland for dry scrubland and not the secret base it really is.

Maybe the person videoing was Cambodian

OMG!... A double agent.

He was spying on the Thai side when the video begins?!?

Quick, sentence him to 8 years in prison.

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Entirely agree. Veera yanked the chain, and the dog bit back.

A pretty good summary.

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I take quiet satisfaction from the result and think it serves as a good example to leave such matters to the diplomatic service and Government to sort out at pre-planned meetings with their opposite number. If we as farangs get involved in this stuff we are deported. He interferes in another country's internal affairs and is imprisoned.

Where's the fire other than under his back side?

There is an eletist arrogance about Thais and how they conduct themselves around Bangkok, all motorcades, shut downs and me first. It certainly cuts no headway when you step abroad, especially where an autocrat rules in despotic fashion. He's had it coming and got it in spades. Which might come in handy if he's sentenced to hard labour. Then again for such spoilt brats any day's labour would be hard when life has revolved around Siam Paragon, the Golf Course and diner at 8.

Talking of 8 .........I personally hope it is a good long sentence to be served that can not be interferred with. You know the kind of thing that we'd be on the end of. A sentence that we'd have to serve and only by way of remission have it reduced. I can't see him making friends and influence any time soon. High -so has just become 'Hi, so?'

I hope he fades in to the back ground as he is what exactly? Prisoner of conscious hardly fits, dissident neither, political prisoner doesn't suit but criminal does. Maybe we'll see an invite from his yellow mates to Amnesty International to act on his behalf? A poor Thai imprisoned abroad. Correction: make that a rich Thai.

In point of fact make that a criminal. Pure and simple. A criminal locked up for a crime in another conutry. May be the Tv will run it's own 'Banged up abroad' programme, although with Thai corruption trying to oil the wheels of freedom it'd be better called 'Bunged Up Abroad'.

Still, he's at one of the finest Universities of Life and for once he'll have to keep his eyes open and his wits about him in order to survive, or rather graduate in one piece without wooden box or urn of ashes at the end of it.

I hope they've already lost the key.

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A few years back a bunch of Iranian diplomats were expelled from the US for taking pics of bridges etc in NY. It always depends who you are, what you represent or are perceived as representing and where you are from.

Posturing

Precisely

Exactly, which is why it has nothing to do with the accuracy of Veera and Ratree's so-called espionage, hence the "trumped-up charge" statement earlier in the thread.

It's all about posturing by Hun Sen and nothing to do with spying, which is why 8 year and 6 year prison sentences are totally unjustified.

.

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

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A few years back a bunch of Iranian diplomats were expelled from the US for taking pics of bridges etc in NY. It always depends who you are, what you represent or are perceived as representing and where you are from.

Posturing

Precisely

Exactly, which is why it has nothing to do with the accuracy of Veera and Ratree's so-called espionage, hence the "trumped-up charge" statement earlier in the thread.

It's all about posturing by Hun Sen and nothing to do with spying, which is why 8 year and 6 year prison sentences are totally unjustified.

.

Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

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Buchholz, why are you defending these people? They asked for trouble and they got what they asked for.

In the video you posted in post #77, they clearly indicate the point at which they enter Cambodian territory. They knew what they were doing. They played with fire, and they got burned. I wonder whether you would defend Westeners clearly trying to enter Thai territory across a "green border" (i.e. not an official check-point) and getting arrested, or anybody taking pictures of an East-German military installation (marked or not) which would have put you in prison for more than eight years.

Yes, it probably (and maybe even certainly) has to do with Hun Sen flexing his muscles. But Veera and his entourage *knew* that this would happen, and they provoked it on purpose! It is very strange that you defend these people. They wanted the publicity, and now they pay the price. Not a surprising price, either.

If (for some reason) they are released from prison in Cambodia, I hope they get improsined in Thailand for causing great problems to Thailand and it's foreign affairs policies. They are certainly not Thai "patriotes" but have caused major troubles to Thailand.

Did East Germany have any military installations that one could wander into from West Germany on an afternoon stroll?

To repeat, punish them for their trespassing, but espionage? Sorry, it doesn't wash with the reality.

Footage of a dusty road and a small rural farming village with no military presence doesn't constitute spying. Nor does it qualify it as a "military base."

I'm not defending their actions, only pointing out the ridiculousness of their additional charges and their unjustified lengthy imprisonment, particularly that of co-defendant Ratree.

You may or may not be getting the point. Have you ever considered the political nature of their actions rather than the legal points?

Are you a lawyer, or do you understand international politics? A lawyer might care about a dusty road, but in a political dimension this goes far beyond your line of argumentation.

That said, I might be out of this thread very soon.

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BANGKOK 27 May 2017 20:52
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