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BANGKOK 13 November 2018 10:36
RamdomChances

Thai Sayings and Phrases Wanted

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"คำคล้องจอง, เสน่ห์ของภาษาไทย", โดย ชัยรัตน์ วงศ์เกียรติ์ขจร โ หน้า ๒๔๙: 

"ย้อมแมวขาย  ก. (สำ) ตำแต่งคนหรือของที่ไม่ดี โดยเจตนาลวงให้ผู้อ่นเชื่อว่าดี, เอาของที่เสียมาแต่งลวงตา"

 

Related ideas: to build a Potemkin village; "ผักชีโรยหน้า น. (สำ) การทำควาดีเพียงผิวเผินเพื่อเอาหน้า"

From Wikipedia: 'In an article in the Quad-City Herald (Brewster, Washington) from 31 January 1980, it was observed that "You can clean up a pig, put a ribbon on it's [sic] tail, spray it with perfume, but it is still a pig." '

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ผักชีโรยหน้า is defined in the RID as  การทำความดีเพียงผิวเผิน

It doesn’t explain why it is done so I suppose it is an alternative to ย้อมแมวขาย which I suspect may not be an old saying. 

 

Does anybody know the origin? Why would one want to dye a cat?  

 

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Just now, tgeezer said:

 

ผักชีโรยหน้า is defined in the RID as  การทำความดีเพียงผิวเผิน

It doesn’t explain why it is done so I suppose it is an alternative to ย้อมแมวขาย which I suspect may not be an old saying. 

 

Does anybody know the origin? Why would one want to dye a cat?  

 

Here's one explanation tgeezer

 

http://www.suphasitthai.com/ย้อมแมวขาย

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Thanks for that. At first I thought that the origin would seem to indicate something different because a coloured cat is a coloured cat. In those days there must have been good quality colouring jobs and bad quality jobs.
I have not yet found a story of ย้อมแมวขาย being applied to people, so I think that nowadays there must be a financial transaction involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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The origin is more logically explained by the Royal Society bannork. Do you not get the impression that cat lovers dyed their own cats from your link? 

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On 16/1/2561 at 10:47 AM, tgeezer said:

It would seem that if a saying is not used properly people take them literally. When we research a saying we are doing something which most Thais do not do. Schoolbooks think that ภาษิต พังเพย and สำนวนไทย are an important element of the language, a ม5 book I have devotes some twenty pages to them, listing about 400. Incidentally neither of the two here get a mention there and ย้อมแมวขาย isn’t in any of my books of ‘sayings’.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

The other day there was a thread in Pantip.com from a guy who can't understand the สำนวน "ศีลเสมอกัน"

 

ศีล in buddhist context is literally: norms but in use in Thai has become 'precepts' or 'commandments' 

Typical Buddihist take 5 'precepts' like thou shall not 1,kill , 2lie, 3steal, 4drink alcohol, 5commit adultery

some take more like 8, male monks take 227

 

ศีลเสมอกัน is now used to talk about couple, like husband and wife that they are 'of the same cloth' and has no longer any religious connotation, but the Thai guy couldn't get his head around that it's just a figure of speech

Edited by digbeth

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9 hours ago, tgeezer said:


Thanks for that. At first I thought that the origin would seem to indicate something different because a coloured cat is a coloured cat. In those days there must have been good quality colouring jobs and bad quality jobs.
I have not yet found a story of ย้อมแมวขาย being applied to people, so I think that nowadays there must be a financial transaction involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Here's an example of  ย้อมแมวขาย being applied to people.

> เริ่มกันที่สำนวนแรก “ย้อมแมวขาย” 

ที่มา : สำนวนนี้น่าจะมาจากการเลี้ยงแมวของคนไทย เจ้าของแมวอาจจะเห็นว่าแมวของตนมีสีขนไม่สวย แมวมีลักษณะไม่ดี เจ้าของก็เลยนำแมวมาตกแต่งย้อมสี ให้เห็นว่า แมววของตนมีสีสันสวยงาม สำนวนย้อมแมวขาย 

ความหมาย : ตกแต่งสิ่งที่ไม่ดี ไม่สวยงาม โดยมีเจตนาให้ผู้อื่นเชื่อว่าเป็นของดี ส่วนใหญ่มักใช้พูดประชดประชันเสียดสีสาวงามที่ขึ้นประกวดเวทีต่างๆ ที่มักถูกปรับปรุงรูปโฉมให้สวยงามหลอกสายตาขณะกรรมการตัดสินการประกวด ยิ่งไปกว่านั้นสาวงามบางคนอาจจะไม่ใช่สาวบริสุทธิ์

 

This proverb is often used to make fun of beauty show contestants that have been made up to look beautiful in an attempt to fool the panel of judges. In addition some of the contestants are not virgins. ( shock horror!)

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  The four hundred plus sayings are described as ควรทราบ in my ม 5 book so this pinned topic would appear to need more attention than I have given it.  

 คำพังเพยกล่าวเป็นกลาง ๆ เพื่อให้ตีความเข้ากับเรื่อง  from that I would hope to see an example of its use eg. ผู้หญิงบางคนย้อมแมวขาย

 How about; กรรมการโดนย้อมแมวขายแล้ว 

I have read somewhere in relation to สำนวนไทย the following  สอกแทรกในคะติ also, so just inserting the saying ungrammatically as it may seem to be, should have the power to do the job.   

Any thoughts on that chaps? 

 

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A mother was describing her useless son who had been arrested yet again for being in possesion of amphetamines.

She said  มีดแปดด้าน  (a 8 sided knife)- meaning to be at one's wits end, to be at a loss as how to solve a problem

 

http://www.xn--m3cv1ac5bny.net/มืดแปดด้าน/

 

Why 8 sides? Read below.

https://th.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090914192921AAHmzdt

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มืด Bannork you have a typo, Until I read the links I didn’t notice but it still works, they don’t bother to explain the significance of มืด because to a native it is probably obvious. 

มีด meaning that there are knives on all sides blocking escape, whereas the actual saying is darkness on all sides so the way can’t be seen. 

I wonder, did the mum say มีด? 

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7 hours ago, tgeezer said:

มืด Bannork you have a typo, Until I read the links I didn’t notice but it still works, they don’t bother to explain the significance of มืด because to a native it is probably obvious. 

มีด meaning that there are knives on all sides blocking escape, whereas the actual saying is darkness on all sides so the way can’t be seen. 

I wonder, did the mum say มีด? 

I read it in a paper, no, its my eyes , gotta get a new pair of specs!

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I saw this picture today and I thought of the idiom: a picture is worth a thousand words.

The nearest Thai equivalent I could get was:  สิบปากว่าไม่เท่าตาเห็น - more than ten mouths can't equal your own eyes

If we translate less literally we might get- more than ten opinions can't match what you see with your own eyes

I like that!

ice berg plastic bag photo.jpg

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Can someone explain the meaning of this one please: เลี้ยงลูกเสือลูดจระเข้ 

 

Thank you

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It says “looking after Tiger cubs, crocodile babies.” 

It means looking after the babies of creatures which are dangerous brings trouble. 

I think that you can take it that babies of bad parentage bring trouble. 

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Can someone tell me the common word for neighborhood mom & pop shops that sell beer, snacks, etc.? I have usually called them ร้านชำ (ran cham) but I think that may be incorrect. Is it ร้านค้า (ran ka)?? I always think of ร้านค้า as being bigger stores.

Thanks!

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