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Deaths of Quebec women in Thailand may have been caused by pesticide

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I' sure the grieving dad will be pleased to know that the same thing could have happened to his daughters in other countries. What an insensitive prick this guy is

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The glib way the minister of Health speaks, says it all. In other countrys people are responsible, and accountable. In Thailand nobody is! The minister needs a hard lesson! Makes me mad!

A proper investigation of Thailand's Ministry of Health would make your hair stand on end.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

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But, what would be left on the plate would be a powder or broken down pellets. There wouldn't be much residue left in the solid.

Modern day analytical techniques require only milligrams of substance.

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But, what would be left on the plate would be a powder or broken down pellets. There wouldn't be much residue left in the solid.

Modern day analytical techniques require only milligrams of substance.

Would it be enough to kill anyone?,,dunno but doubt it

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As I recall, the parents had the results of the Canadian forensic / autoposy, etc, not too long after the deaths,
but declined to have those results made public, creating speculation that the findings would not be in the best interest to their daughters character and memory,

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very good post and can I add that asbestos banned in most 1st world countrys is used in the construction of roofing and sheating in the thai building industry etc and many thais have no idea of the danger's of drinking water collected from roof drains and ageing roofing systems . breathing asbestos fibers causes mesothelioma and acute lung desease and lung cancer , and I would mention the liver cancer caused by un cooked fermented fish , known in the north east ass plara or stinky fish in English .

Somehow directly linked to the atrocious death of Audrey and Noémi Bélanger.

I wrote about this several times already. While people (rightly) focus on the dangers of cigarettes, I highly believe that MOST of the Food (Veggies, Fruits, Chicken, Pork, Shrimps etc...) produced in Thailand for the LOCAL MARKET are - at least - as toxic as cigarettes. Like for so many other things in this country, a combination of failed State + widespread corruption + lack of standards + no control + no respect of laws and regulations has led to extremely dangerous abuses. In Thailand, there is no law and regulation on usage of pesticides and chemicals. As simple as that. If there are a few, it is not enforced and respected. A few weeks ago, a courageous Thai guy raised a red flag over the usage of highly carcinogenic formalin on veggies/fruits by street sellers and in markets. Just the tip of the iceberg.... (Mostly innocent) farmers are forced to use chemicals and pesticides that are forbidden for decades in the US or Europe. Thailand is 20-30 years behind... My call might be somehow highly "dramatic" but I am really convinced that the reality is dramatic.

Just look at the exponential increase of cancers in Thailand in the last few years. Some (usual) detractors will argue that Cancer is not only a Thailand issue and the largest International Food corporations are also accused on a regular basis to poison consumers, only to make more profit. Well, by anticipation I will answer to this question... Yes there are abuses everywhere. But in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls. Yes there are also collusions but overall things move into the right direction: protection of consumers. In Thailand, probably 80-90% of the Food Chain is probably TOXIC. Reason being: no law, no standard, no control, failed state, corruption. this trend has been increasing very very fast in the past decade.

In addition to my above statement, I encourage you to read the below article.

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticides-threaten-thailands-reputation-as-food-exporter/1519985.html

If export quality is questionable, I cannot imagine the "local" quality for food, veggies, fruits, chicken, shrimps etc...

I personally do not buy anymore street food. Looks good, tastes good, cheap. But highly toxic.

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Somehow directly linked to the atrocious death of Audrey and Noémi Bélanger.

I wrote about this several times already. While people (rightly) focus on the dangers of cigarettes, I highly believe that MOST of the Food (Veggies, Fruits, Chicken, Pork, Shrimps etc...) produced in Thailand for the LOCAL MARKET are - at least - as toxic as cigarettes. Like for so many other things in this country, a combination of failed State + widespread corruption + lack of standards + no control + no respect of laws and regulations has led to extremely dangerous abuses. In Thailand, there is no law and regulation on usage of pesticides and chemicals. As simple as that. If there are a few, it is not enforced and respected. A few weeks ago, a courageous Thai guy raised a red flag over the usage of highly carcinogenic formalin on veggies/fruits by street sellers and in markets. Just the tip of the iceberg.... (Mostly innocent) farmers are forced to use chemicals and pesticides that are forbidden for decades in the US or Europe. Thailand is 20-30 years behind... My call might be somehow highly "dramatic" but I am really convinced that the reality is dramatic.

Just look at the exponential increase of cancers in Thailand in the last few years. Some (usual) detractors will argue that Cancer is not only a Thailand issue and the largest International Food corporations are also accused on a regular basis to poison consumers, only to make more profit. Well, by anticipation I will answer to this question... Yes there are abuses everywhere. But in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls. Yes there are also collusions but overall things move into the right direction: protection of consumers. In Thailand, probably 80-90% of the Food Chain is probably TOXIC. Reason being: no law, no standard, no control, failed state, corruption. this trend has been increasing very very fast in the past decade.

In addition to my above statement, I encourage you to read the below article.

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticides-threaten-thailands-reputation-as-food-exporter/1519985.html

If export quality is questionable, I cannot imagine the "local" quality for food, veggies, fruits, chicken, shrimps etc...

I personally do not buy anymore street food. Looks good, tastes good, cheap. But highly toxic.

OK OK Fair enough. You know, there is no end of abuse that a healthy human can take, and live happily ever after. There is just no way that this room spraying theory holds water. Sum total, if it is safe enough for the person spraying to move in, and the room service etc., then the two sisters would not have died from it. It takes a lot to die, unless somebody has preexisting conditions. No, sorry, doesn't convince me.

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Second one on this, the substance is also pretty stinky and very dangerous to handle (tends to self-ignition). Hard to believe the sisters shouldn't have noticed it. Nobody in his right mind uses that stuff except under very special and tightly controlled conditions

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During the Downtown Inn incident, one "expert" cited numerous deaths, in India, from pesticide poisoning. What he didn't point out is these were suicides by drinking the stuff.

But, the Thai authorities have found that attributing these deaths to "over zealous fumigators" shuts the pesky foreigners up. We can expect this to be the "goto" conclusion on most of these cases.



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But, what would be left on the plate would be a powder or broken down pellets. There wouldn't be much residue left in the solid.

Modern day analytical techniques require only milligrams of substance.

Would it be enough to kill anyone?,,dunno but doubt it

Don't really understand your point or what you're arguing about. Why are you focussing on the case of two young Danish children who died in the Saudi Arabian city of Jeddah from aluminium phoshide (AlP) poisoning used as a fumigant?

First you state that AlP is a gas.

When it's pointed out this is incorrect and in fact it's a solid at room temperature, you change the argument to there would be no residue on the plate. This is incorrect, hydrolysis of the pellets in air is a slow process and not instantaneous.

Then you change tack again and talk about a small amount of residue of AlP left on the plate could not kill anyone.

It's not the AlP on the plate that's toxic, like they ate their dinner off it and it killed them. it's the phosphine gas it gives off as it reacts with moisture in the air that's toxic. This gas permeates an enclosed space, is about the same density as air (maybe a little denser) and is breathed in, binding with haemoglobin in your blood with fatal results. Google it. There are numerous stories of accidental poisoning of people by AlP when used as a fumigant in an enclosed space such as a room. It doesn't take much AlP to do it.

Edited by katana
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...in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls.

Baloney!

They have fooled you into thinking that the regulatory bodies are there for your protection. They are there for the corporations profits. Each and every dangerous chemical used in agriculture was invented/developed in the WEST. As one gets knocked off the list for use because of hideous side effects another NEW ONE fills its place - and 10 or twenty years down the road the new one will be found to have harmful effects and be replaced as well... the cycle turns ad infinitum. AND where do you think these corporations then sell their stockpiles of banned chemicals? Developing countries. "We know its banned here, but we can still sell it in Africa, SA and Asia!"

Please don't be so naive as to believe this is a Thai issue. It is a western, corporate agribusiness issue delivered gift-wrapped to developing nations.

Since 1945, the use of pesticides in the United States has quintupled. More than 1 billion pounds of pesticides—a broad term that includes weed killers, insecticides and fungicides—are now used in the United States each year. Over 1,000 chemicals registered to fight pests and pathogens are formulated into some 20,000 products. Most are for agricultural use, but a fifth are designed for nonagricultural applications—in homes and gardens, playgrounds, schools, offices and hospitals. It's no surprise that studies show many of us—even newborns—harbouring detectable levels of pesticides in our bodies.

Edited by mikebike

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As I recall, the parents had the results of the Canadian forensic / autoposy, etc, not too long after the deaths,

but declined to have those results made public, creating speculation that the findings would not be in the best interest to their daughters character and memory

,

uh COBRA

That was speculation made by the THAI media and as such is not only totally false but clearly designed for sidetracking and obfuscation - it worked to didn't it sad.png

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Somehow directly linked to the atrocious death of Audrey and Noémi Bélanger.

I wrote about this several times already. While people (rightly) focus on the dangers of cigarettes, I highly believe that MOST of the Food (Veggies, Fruits, Chicken, Pork, Shrimps etc...) produced in Thailand for the LOCAL MARKET are - at least - as toxic as cigarettes. Like for so many other things in this country, a combination of failed State + widespread corruption + lack of standards + no control + no respect of laws and regulations has led to extremely dangerous abuses. In Thailand, there is no law and regulation on usage of pesticides and chemicals. As simple as that. If there are a few, it is not enforced and respected. A few weeks ago, a courageous Thai guy raised a red flag over the usage of highly carcinogenic formalin on veggies/fruits by street sellers and in markets. Just the tip of the iceberg.... (Mostly innocent) farmers are forced to use chemicals and pesticides that are forbidden for decades in the US or Europe. Thailand is 20-30 years behind... My call might be somehow highly "dramatic" but I am really convinced that the reality is dramatic.

Just look at the exponential increase of cancers in Thailand in the last few years. Some (usual) detractors will argue that Cancer is not only a Thailand issue and the largest International Food corporations are also accused on a regular basis to poison consumers, only to make more profit. Well, by anticipation I will answer to this question... Yes there are abuses everywhere. But in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls. Yes there are also collusions but overall things move into the right direction: protection of consumers. In Thailand, probably 80-90% of the Food Chain is probably TOXIC. Reason being: no law, no standard, no control, failed state, corruption. this trend has been increasing very very fast in the past decade.

In addition to my above statement, I encourage you to read the below article.

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticides-threaten-thailands-reputation-as-food-exporter/1519985.html

If export quality is questionable, I cannot imagine the "local" quality for food, veggies, fruits, chicken, shrimps etc...

I personally do not buy anymore street food. Looks good, tastes good, cheap. But highly toxic.

OK OK Fair enough. You know, there is no end of abuse that a healthy human can take, and live happily ever after. There is just no way that this room spraying theory holds water. Sum total, if it is safe enough for the person spraying to move in, and the room service etc., then the two sisters would not have died from it. It takes a lot to die, unless somebody has preexisting conditions. No, sorry, doesn't convince me.

It's not sprayed.

Its a fumigant that is placed in an airtight room for a few days. After a few days the room should be ventilated well.

Go in too early. Bam. Ur dead. Not ventilated properly, u might be dead.

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Somehow directly linked to the atrocious death of Audrey and Noémi Bélanger.

I wrote about this several times already. While people (rightly) focus on the dangers of cigarettes, I highly believe that MOST of the Food (Veggies, Fruits, Chicken, Pork, Shrimps etc...) produced in Thailand for the LOCAL MARKET are - at least - as toxic as cigarettes. Like for so many other things in this country, a combination of failed State + widespread corruption + lack of standards + no control + no respect of laws and regulations has led to extremely dangerous abuses. In Thailand, there is no law and regulation on usage of pesticides and chemicals. As simple as that. If there are a few, it is not enforced and respected. A few weeks ago, a courageous Thai guy raised a red flag over the usage of highly carcinogenic formalin on veggies/fruits by street sellers and in markets. Just the tip of the iceberg.... (Mostly innocent) farmers are forced to use chemicals and pesticides that are forbidden for decades in the US or Europe. Thailand is 20-30 years behind... My call might be somehow highly "dramatic" but I am really convinced that the reality is dramatic.

Just look at the exponential increase of cancers in Thailand in the last few years. Some (usual) detractors will argue that Cancer is not only a Thailand issue and the largest International Food corporations are also accused on a regular basis to poison consumers, only to make more profit. Well, by anticipation I will answer to this question... Yes there are abuses everywhere. But in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls. Yes there are also collusions but overall things move into the right direction: protection of consumers. In Thailand, probably 80-90% of the Food Chain is probably TOXIC. Reason being: no law, no standard, no control, failed state, corruption. this trend has been increasing very very fast in the past decade.

In addition to my above statement, I encourage you to read the below article.

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticides-threaten-thailands-reputation-as-food-exporter/1519985.html

If export quality is questionable, I cannot imagine the "local" quality for food, veggies, fruits, chicken, shrimps etc...

I personally do not buy anymore street food. Looks good, tastes good, cheap. But highly toxic.

OK OK Fair enough. You know, there is no end of abuse that a healthy human can take, and live happily ever after. There is just no way that this room spraying theory holds water. Sum total, if it is safe enough for the person spraying to move in, and the room service etc., then the two sisters would not have died from it. It takes a lot to die, unless somebody has preexisting conditions. No, sorry, doesn't convince me.

It's not sprayed.

Its a fumigant that is placed in an airtight room for a few days. After a few days the room should be ventilated well.

Go in too early. Bam. Ur dead. Not ventilated properly, u might be dead.

I would think if the room was fumigated anytime in the days or hours before they checked in that another guest or employee would have mentioned it by now. Was there even reports of bed bugs at this place?

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As I recall, the parents had the results of the Canadian forensic / autoposy, etc, not too long after the deaths,

but declined to have those results made public, creating speculation that the findings would not be in the best interest to their daughters character and memory

,

uh COBRA

That was speculation made by the THAI media and as such is not only totally false but clearly designed for sidetracking and obfuscation - it worked to didn't it sad.png

It was reported in Thai media because it was reported in a Canadian paper. I forget what the issue was around (possibly toxicology / drugs report) where they stopped allowing info to be shared with the public. But I do recall clearly that it was the coroner or their office which made the statement that no further info would be shared at the request of (or possibly out of respect for)the family. I "think" at some point the completed autopsy results has to become public record.

Edited by JohnThailandJohn

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BANGKOK 13 December 2017 04:38
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