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Deaths of Quebec women in Thailand may have been caused by pesticide

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Why is the Canadian side waiting 2 years to announce the result? Just wait for more people to die, nice one.

The Quebec coroner is not "waiting". It does indeed take 1-2 years to complete an investigation. Every coroner's office in North America has a backlog of cases. That backlog can delay much of the investigation many months or even a year. Priority is assigned according to local relevance. A local criminal case gets priority. It can take a year just to run the toxicology tests. It takes months to do the literature research. Despite the impression created by television shows, the technology cannot replace one of the limiting factors: human work hours.

Information has been shared with other investigators. This is how the Norwegians were able to advise the Norwegian woman's mother. The Quebec coroner has to contact other medical investigators in the countries where nationals have had mysterious deaths. those investigators have to go and run the tests on their samples to see if the Quebec forensic investigation has merit in respect to their own cases. The conclusions that will be reached will be supported by actual evidence and it will draw on foreign input. This isn't just the Quebec coroner delaying the investigation. The perceived slow pace is normal and a result of prudent investigation. As more investigators are involved, it causes additional delays.

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Somehow directly linked to the atrocious death of Audrey and Noémi Bélanger.

I wrote about this several times already. While people (rightly) focus on the dangers of cigarettes, I highly believe that MOST of the Food (Veggies, Fruits, Chicken, Pork, Shrimps etc...) produced in Thailand for the LOCAL MARKET are - at least - as toxic as cigarettes. Like for so many other things in this country, a combination of failed State + widespread corruption + lack of standards + no control + no respect of laws and regulations has led to extremely dangerous abuses. In Thailand, there is no law and regulation on usage of pesticides and chemicals. As simple as that. If there are a few, it is not enforced and respected. A few weeks ago, a courageous Thai guy raised a red flag over the usage of highly carcinogenic formalin on veggies/fruits by street sellers and in markets. Just the tip of the iceberg.... (Mostly innocent) farmers are forced to use chemicals and pesticides that are forbidden for decades in the US or Europe. Thailand is 20-30 years behind... My call might be somehow highly "dramatic" but I am really convinced that the reality is dramatic.

Just look at the exponential increase of cancers in Thailand in the last few years. Some (usual) detractors will argue that Cancer is not only a Thailand issue and the largest International Food corporations are also accused on a regular basis to poison consumers, only to make more profit. Well, by anticipation I will answer to this question... Yes there are abuses everywhere. But in the US or in Europe, there are effective rules, regulations and controls. Yes there are also collusions but overall things move into the right direction: protection of consumers. In Thailand, probably 80-90% of the Food Chain is probably TOXIC. Reason being: no law, no standard, no control, failed state, corruption. this trend has been increasing very very fast in the past decade.

In addition to my above statement, I encourage you to read the below article.

http://www.voanews.com/content/pesticides-threaten-thailands-reputation-as-food-exporter/1519985.html

If export quality is questionable, I cannot imagine the "local" quality for food, veggies, fruits, chicken, shrimps etc...

I personally do not buy anymore street food. Looks good, tastes good, cheap. But highly toxic.

OK OK Fair enough. You know, there is no end of abuse that a healthy human can take, and live happily ever after. There is just no way that this room spraying theory holds water. Sum total, if it is safe enough for the person spraying to move in, and the room service etc., then the two sisters would not have died from it. It takes a lot to die, unless somebody has preexisting conditions. No, sorry, doesn't convince me.

It's not sprayed.

Its a fumigant that is placed in an airtight room for a few days. After a few days the room should be ventilated well.

Go in too early. Bam. Ur dead. Not ventilated properly, u might be dead.

I would think if the room was fumigated anytime in the days or hours before they checked in that another guest or employee would have mentioned it by now. Was there even reports of bed bugs at this place?

Not necessarily. These plonkers would probably just close the door. Why would anyone mention it? The hotel could even be doing their own amateur efforts at fumigation. Another guest would never know.

These types of things are done on a regular contract not when needed.

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The Quebec coroner is not "waiting". It does indeed take 1-2 years to complete an investigation.

Jeez, man. The TV CSI team here had it figured out before the 6th post that day.

Don't slow us down with the facts...

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As I recall, the parents had the results of the Canadian forensic / autoposy, etc, not too long after the deaths,

but declined to have those results made public, creating speculation that the findings would not be in the best interest to their daughters character and memory,

It was the preliminary indications, primarily based upon the Thai investigation. The parents followed the advice of the local coroner's office and said they would await for the actual results. They were told some time ago of the findings as the investigation progressed. The parents have acted responsibly by waiting until more substantive information was available. There is an old saying of giving someone enough rope to hang himself. Well, that's what's being done here. It's a bombshell because the results will go a long way in shedding light on some other "mysterious" deaths. It will be undisputable evidence that post mortem exam evidence obtained in Thailand is unreliable in cases where the cause of death is not readily identifiable.

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" At Thailand’s Ministry of Health, Akarasewi said there is growing concern about pesticides.

“Chemical poisoning is one of the emerging problems. So we hope we can do the job better in the future,” he said.

He seemed surprised to hear that aluminum phosphide might be used in hotel rooms, since it is dangerous and illegal.

Still, he said Thailand is as safe as any other country.

“I may travel someplace and get the same problem,” he said. “I may go to Europe, Canada, Australia and can get the same problem like this.”"

I bet you wouldn't, mate.

I bet you could! I thought I was nearly dying in a motel near the ski jump in Calgary Canada years ago. Room smelled odd like some type of chemical, migraine came that was so intense that I thought I was dying including nausea, vomiting you name it.

Now, just today on a news show in canada, we found out this pesticide is also being used here, but only with contractors who have 6 months of training with it. So, "yes" it can happen in other countries as well and probably does happen in the US and Australia. We also allow GMO foods in our countries as well so who knows what the eventual outcome of that will be.

Edited by dude123

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My post #50 explains normal procedures.

The Quebec--Chiang Mai-other deaths similar.

I cannot understand the basics here, Questions like who is responsible HOTEL without a doubt. Question to hotel what cleaning pesticides did you use ---who used them under whose authority ???

Why were any used when the room was occupied ??

After these EASY questions were answered, forensics can then determine how the deaths occurred.

In the case of Chiang Mai, why was the hotel NOT closed ??? loss of earnings ??? I believe that before forensics could do a proper job the entire floor was sectioned off and stripped and re furbished, I stand to be corrected on this, going on memory.

As I pointed out in the Chiang Mai related case, ODD the hotel re named, then knocked down ?????

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Would not be the first time:remember a similar problem in 1985 and 1992 one in Chiang Mai and one in Mae Sot

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Bottom line is Thai Police said back in 2012 the girls were killed by insecticide poisoning. Now in 2014 it seems like the Canadian authorities may agree but there is still no indication of how the girls were exposed.

AUGUST 31, 2012 .... MONTREAL - Thai police reportedly said two Quebec sisters found dead in a resort in June were killed from insecticide exposure, local media reported Friday. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/31/sisters-in-thailand-died-of-insecticide-poisoning-cops

Edited by JohnThailandJohn

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The Quebec coroner is not "waiting". It does indeed take 1-2 years to complete an investigation.

Jeez, man. The TV CSI team here had it figured out before the 6th post that day.

Don't slow us down with the facts...

Agreed..Myself, and lots of other TV posters were positive at the that it was poison

that killed those girls. But am amazed at the 2 year delay. What takes two years??

Surely not the lab tests....... So in this two year delay, how many other people have

died ? Am sure that is exactly what happened at the Downtown death hotel. Since

the cause was not investigated properly, people just kept dying......

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" At Thailand’s Ministry of Health, Akarasewi said there is growing concern about pesticides.

“Chemical poisoning is one of the emerging problems. So we hope we can do the job better in the future,” he said.

He seemed surprised to hear that aluminum phosphide might be used in hotel rooms, since it is dangerous and illegal.

Still, he said Thailand is as safe as any other country.

“I may travel someplace and get the same problem,” he said. “I may go to Europe, Canada, Australia and can get the same problem like this.”"

I bet you wouldn't, mate.

I bet you could! I thought I was nearly dying in a motel near the ski jump in Calgary Canada years ago. Room smelled odd like some type of chemical, migraine came that was so intense that I thought I was dying including nausea, vomiting you name it.

Now, just today on a news show in canada, we found out this pesticide is also being used here, but only with contractors who have 6 months of training with it. So, "yes" it can happen in other countries as well and probably does happen in the US and Australia. We also allow GMO foods in our countries as well so who knows what the eventual outcome of that will be.

Were you staying in a grain elevator? The contractors who are required to have certification purchase it for use in accordance with the fumigation of grain storage and handling facilities. It is not authorized for use in the hospitality sector. An authorized pest control company will not risk its certification, nor the liability associated with the inappropriate use of a regulated chemical. You may think you were exposed, but you your "migraine" could have been brought on by chemical shedding from the carpet, or from burnt electrical wiring or many other substances, or even been a figment of your imagination. Unless you have an actual chemical analysis to support your allegation, it is just that, an allegation. Unlike Thailand, the chemical is rigidly controlled and requires licenses to use.

Btw, there are only 8 Genetically Modified foods allowed in Canada, all of whom have been on the market for quite some time with zero adverse reactions reported.

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Would not be the first time:remember a similar problem in 1985 and 1992 one in Chiang Mai and one in Mae Sot

Also have to wonder about all the tourist deaths immediately attributed to alcohol poisoning, drug use and natural causes (old age)- then fade from the headlines in days, or even hours.

As geriatrickid pointed out, this case seems to be throwing doubt on pretty much all the conclusions coming from local authorities when tourist dollars and reputation are at stake.

Edited by impulse

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Simple answer:dont die in Thailand.........maybe just Philippines is the worst place to Die

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Bottom line is Thai Police said back in 2012 the girls were killed by insecticide poisoning. Now in 2014 it seems like the Canadian authorities may agree but there is still no indication of how the girls were exposed.

AUGUST 31, 2012 .... MONTREAL - Thai police reportedly said two Quebec sisters found dead in a resort in June were killed from insecticide exposure, local media reported Friday. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/31/sisters-in-thailand-died-of-insecticide-poisoning-cops

Yes the question is, ( it looks like all these deaths were insecticide related) Have the hotels come up with an explanation ??? they have "back of house " store, back of house would release any items if requested by the housekeeper, who is in charge of the guest rooms.

Unless an outside contractor is engaged to deal with the problem.

These questions about what was ordered and who carried out the chemical duty seam to be NOT NOT answered.

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AS an ex pest controller in Aus,and the uk, i can tell you bed bugs,if that is what they were trying to control,are a very difficult pest to get rid off,it often takes 4or 5 treatments,and often things like the mattress,or even the bed frame and furniture has to be discarded,imagine this scenario in a thai guest house,pest controller"you will have to throw out the bed ,mattress etc" hotel owner"what i pay you for,you cannot fix my problem", so pest controller will lose face,so to prevent himself loosing faces and money he knows if he uses the fumigant it will do the job,even though it is illegal,"my pen rai" he thinks,maybe he tells the owner no one can use the room for x amount of days maybe he does'nt,hotel owner recieves new guests puts them in said room and we have the sad deaths of the young ladies,i wonder if the hotel has been investigated and the pest company who did the treatment,of course if there was one,maybe the hotel had someone who could get access to the product,however to expect any one to be prosecuted for this, in Thailand,about as much chance as me being made prime minister of the Uk.

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AS an ex pest controller in Aus,and the uk, i can tell you bed bugs,if that is what they were trying to control,are a very difficult pest to get rid off,it often takes 4or 5 treatments,and often things like the mattress,or even the bed frame and furniture has to be discarded,imagine this scenario in a thai guest house,pest controller"you will have to throw out the bed ,mattress etc" hotel owner"what i pay you for,you cannot fix my problem", so pest controller will lose face,so to prevent himself loosing faces and money he knows if he uses the fumigant it will do the job,even though it is illegal,"my pen rai" he thinks,maybe he tells the owner no one can use the room for x amount of days maybe he does'nt,hotel owner recieves new guests puts them in said room and we have the sad deaths of the young ladies,i wonder if the hotel has been investigated and the pest company who did the treatment,of course if there was one,maybe the hotel had someone who could get access to the product,however to expect any one to be prosecuted for this, in Thailand,about as much chance as me being made prime minister of the Uk.

Exactly - as I posted earlier, Who used what ??? who treated the room ??? Hotels responsibility.---------------these questions have not been answered.

Try explaining to the son of the elderly couple who died in the Downtown hotel Chiang Mai. He still has no answers really, he has to live with that.

Remember -it said they both died from heart attacks-at the same moment, Would be worth a good read back to this incident.

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BANGKOK 23 October 2017 20:10
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