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rockyysdt

Was Buddism convoluted with Hindu beliefs?

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A speaker at a mainstream international Buddhist retreat recently spoke of Nibanna as a quenching of desire, of heat burning out and the cessation of Dukkha due to non attachment in this life.

He then clearly indicated that I, me, mine, ego, spirit, soul, are constructs.

That reincarnation, re birth, and realms of existence were of Hindu religion and nothing to do with the Buddhas early teachings.

He indicated that the 4 noble truths have no value without regular practice, and awakening, free from greed, delusion, and aversion, is something to experience in the here and now.

This is why I personally don't relate to amulets, temples with lavish depictions of the Buddha as a god/idol, praying to the Buddha, chanting, and lighting candles.

I know luminaries such as Ajahn Maha Boowa, and others revealed self experience of past lives, but others such as Ajahn Buddhadasa denied such things suggesting them being the work of ego.

I met a woman who regularly received religious books in the mail. Her latest read was that of a boy who claimed to meet Jesus. It was proof to her of his existence.

The boy later confessed his story was made up and that he did it to make money and become popular.

The speaker also taught that awakening was action free from dependant origination and that in an awakened one action after contact was not based on mind, feelings, becoming, & attachment, but through wisdom.

I understand there is Dukkha, but aren't the lows worthwhile for without them there can't be highs?

Either live a dispassionate life free from ego, or live with highs and lows, after all both will eventually cease due to impermanence.

Does all this matter?

Is this an unanswerable question?

Is attachment to belief in immortality one of the reasons most will not Awaken?

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ID: 2   Posted (edited)

I might add, he did mention Annata.

Neither self nor no self, but non self.

Neither positive nor negative.

Not nothing, but a void, which seems contradictory.

One thing, you will not be there as you are both imperment, and conditioned with a consciousness which depends on mind/body to exist.

Edited by rockyysdt

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You're being too literal. One isn't expected to be without emotions, just not to be a slave to passion. It's very easy to think that Buddhism is inherently nihilistic, I certainly fell for that. It's important to remember that Buddhism is often referred to as the "Middle Way". Dukkha/ Suffering does not mean a constant state of misery, just a lack of awareness as to the true nature of reality. As for rebirth, Tibetan Buddhists certainly believe it is an important tenant of the faith. It is central to the entire notion of Karma.

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ID: 7   Posted (edited)

You're being too literal. One isn't expected to be without emotions, just not to be a slave to passion. It's very easy to think that Buddhism is inherently nihilistic, I certainly fell for that. It's important to remember that Buddhism is often referred to as the "Middle Way". Dukkha/ Suffering does not mean a constant state of misery, just a lack of awareness as to the true nature of reality. As for rebirth, Tibetan Buddhists certainly believe it is an important tenant of the faith. It is central to the entire notion of Karma.

I don't think this is quite right Orient.

Destruction of the ego (permanently exposed as a construct), after awakening has occurred, removes the mechanism/chain after contact occurs which is thought, then feeling, then becoming, then craving, then attachment.

It is replaced with Contact followed by, wise action.

No longer is there feeling, then becoming, then craving, then attachment.

These are the things required for passion, feeling and so forth.

Further, there is no longer desire to initiate anything which involving desire, nor aversion, nor delusion.

Edited by rockyysdt

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ID: 8   Posted (edited)

wrong Buddhism don't come from hindusim...

because hindu is losing fellowships... as fellowship number is power..!

..so they claimed Buddha is a recarnation of Vishu..etc..

well for sure Buddhism do not believe in class system... if you are born as a Brahmin or undertaker.. u are still able to accept the practise to get enlighten.. with hard-working practise...

for hindu.. if u are born Brahmin.. u are upper class... yes for this lifetime only....

if you happen to read the book Jesus in india...is shown where is Jesus during his teens ?...well just take it a pitch of salt..

as for the 3 wise man who found jesus.. basically we know tibetian monk travel far to search for the next saint.. as he will benefits the human race regardless of which religion he will be..so likely the 3 wise monk is the tibetian monk..

Buddhism do not believe in animals sacrifices... every life is precious..

you can see the compassionation in everyone heart regardless he is a good or bad person... it is just hidden deep or shallow in the heart....

we don't denial the existing of Gods and spirits... because Budhhism need one to go into real understanding and own practise to understand it.. no amount of books knowledge can assist.. only thru own hard effort practise.. but it the Law of Nature... just that we don't accept it as not in favour to us..

we don't want get old..we don't want to lose control of the body and mind...we don't want to lose those we love or like.. and old habits of worlding teaching...40yrs in school and working environment.. changed us... competition , wealth status ,more ..more...!! in the corporate world...only build more greed in us...

non self , impermanence ....

Edited by saggicool
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I dunno....my Guruji suggested Live within "Truth, Love, and Simplicity" "Be happy!"

"Liberation is dependent on inner, rather than outer, renunciations." "Serve Humanity"

and then there is this notion......

Being born is like being kidnapped. And then sold into slavery. [Andy Warhol]

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As for rebirth, Tibetan Buddhists certainly believe it is an important tenant of the faith. It is central to the entire notion of Karma.

Precisely.

When I speak of convolution I was referring to critical tenets such as re incarnation, re birth, actual relms of existence, actions (kharma) affecting re birth (either luck, status or caste).

These are crucial ingredients which make up religion and desirability (ego).

Other posters also highlighted many other Hindu vs Buddhism specifics but the above core beliefs are my focus in the OP.

Does Tibetan Buddhist belief of these give credence?

The speaker was emphatic

He indicated that multiple lives, real realms of existence, re birth/reincarnation were not part of the original Buddhist teaching.

Original teaching was of the present moment in this life.

Those who carried on and eventually wrote the Canon were not in a vacuum. They came with colored eyes (conditioned by Hinduism, Brahmanism, and other beliefs).

In fact Buddhagosa (translated the Pali Canon) had a Christian background.

This is my point of convolution.

The interesting point is that all the 31 realms of existence can live in the mind, the full range of suffering and hell is available on this planet for all, re birth, occurring in minute fractions of existence (dependant origination : contact, consciousness, thought, feeling, craving, becoming, attachment, continuously), the next influenced by the one preceded (kharma).

The desire to exist beyond death, whether as a soul or in a common void of cosmic consciousness, fuels ego, and spawns religions.

Was the Buddha's original teachings highjacked (convoluted )?

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As for rebirth, Tibetan Buddhists certainly believe it is an important tenant of the faith. It is central to the entire notion of Karma.

Precisely.

When I speak of convolution I was referring to critical tenets such as re incarnation, re birth, actual relms of existence, actions (kharma) affecting re birth (either luck, status or caste).

These are crucial ingredients which make up religion and desirability (ego).

Other posters also highlighted many other Hindu vs Buddhism specifics but the above core beliefs are my focus in the OP.

Does Tibetan Buddhist belief of these give credence?

The speaker was emphatic

He indicated that multiple lives, real realms of existence, re birth/reincarnation were not part of the original Buddhist teaching.

Original teaching was of the present moment in this life.

Those who carried on and eventually wrote the Canon were not in a vacuum. They came with colored eyes (conditioned by Hinduism, Brahmanism, and other beliefs).

In fact Buddhagosa (translated the Pali Canon) had a Christian background.

This is my point of convolution.

The interesting point is that all the 31 realms of existence can live in the mind, the full range of suffering and hell is available on this planet for all, re birth, occurring in minute fractions of existence (dependant origination : contact, consciousness, thought, feeling, craving, becoming, attachment, continuously), the next influenced by the one preceded (kharma).

The desire to exist beyond death, whether as a soul or in a common void of cosmic consciousness, fuels ego, and spawns religions.

Was the Buddha's original teachings highjacked (convoluted )?

In is difficult at times to try and render in your own mind the abstract constructs used to represent concepts and what essentially don't exist in our physical dimensions. As with those concepts aren't like walking from one room to another as is the difference between what has been categorised as belonging in either path.

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ID: 14   Posted (edited)

As for rebirth, Tibetan Buddhists certainly believe it is an important tenant of the faith. It is central to the entire notion of Karma.

Is it?

Is this what a Hindu saw through his colored eyes.

Conversely "dependant origination" involves continuous incidences of contact leading to momentary consciousness which then lead to action. It's our last action (kharma: verb doing), which shapes the next loop.

Why does kharma have anything to do with a future life (ego)?

As a frame in a film reel, our consciousness is made up of continuous moments of consciousness. As these happen so quickly, just like a movie, we have an illusion of a me, I, inside.

Each shapes the next (kharma).

Without body there is no mind.

Without sensors (eyes, ears, skin, tongue, mind, nose) there cannot be contact, and therefore there cannot have arising to consciousness.

Edited by rockyysdt

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BANGKOK 26 July 2017 02:03
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