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BANGKOK 23 October 2018 00:23
dontoearth

Ideal Weight? Does anyone have a goal or target weight??

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        I don't think many of the regular posters here have ever expressed a goal weight or a target weight or any objectives.  I think this would help in our discussions as we all know, "One persons poison is another persons pleasure!"   I am working toward 174 lbs which is the highest weight in the normal range of the BMI calculations for a 5' 10" male.   I know about the criticisms of BMI.    I am not tall.   I am not short.  I certainly am not a muscular professional athlete.  I did inherit a dumpy sort of frame but the BMI has a range and I am shooting for the top end of normal.   The BMI works for about 90% of the population but certainly not for body builders.  I did also get a Tanita scale read at the health club of my body muscle portions and fat and some other stuff.

         My objective is to get my blood pressure diastolic reading in the normal range.  I do my own readings every morning.  I have a good resting heart rate.  High diastolic pressure is from fat on the body pressing the heart when it is at rest.  Medications which I take (cause unbelieveable side effects: uncontrollable coughing, sudden seizing muscle cramps and joint damage and weight gain and lately gout).    If a weight of 174 doesn't bring down the diastolic reading I could work down to 163 or 155 perhaps. I saw those figures in the metlife table.   I know everyone hates that thing! 

         My weight gain is a late life thing.  I am 60.  I was a perfect V shape up until age 44.   The V shape is a waist size 9" smaller than your chest.  I think it is sometimes called the golden V.  The extra last 20 lbs came in the last year.  I took an early retirement and the first year of it is devoted to health.    I thought my weight loss would be complete in 5 months.  I am now thinking it will take 7-9 months.   Presently, I have gone from 218 lbs or a 30 BMI down to 191 which is a 27.4 BMI.  This has taken about 3 and a half months and weight loss has been uneven.  I got a super start and then small stalls.   And recently a bounce up.  OWWW!   I would like to hit the 24.9 BMI and see how I feel.  There are other ideal weight calculations and sources. 

         I workout 4 days a week with 1 hour resistance training with a personal trainer and 1 hour cardio.  I have started some HIIT.  BTW, a good trainer is important and I came to Thailand to work out with this one.  He is getting results.  He is IPPA certified.  I had 4 dead beats in Chicago that got ZERO results and they didn't seem to know anything or care much.  Oh they liked cash payments for every session.  They were big on that.  I think I spent a couple years going thru trainers.  If anyone wants help in selecting one I could give a personal advice post.

        I haven't done much with diet.  I watch carbs some days.  Other days I have a big vegetarian meal.  Good carbs.  I have done some Intermittent Fasting.  It is easy for me to skip breakfast.  I hate it.  I didn't drink alcohol (unlike so many TVF members).   I don't drink soda.  I avoid sugar.   I try not to let my sweet tooth guide me anywhere.  I am not attempting portion control because I have read enough research to consider that a dead end...and really dangerous!  Big studies!  Studies of normal weight individuals.  Long term studies.  There is nothing good in portion control.   It has proven itself as a failure in study after study.  I am sorry the AMA (American medical association) won't drop it in favor of something that works.   I know a lot of people on this forum refuse to accept that but I am doing fine without it.  Thanks.  60% of the public believes portion control works.  Congrats McDonald and Pepsi and Coke and Frito-Lay.    I am looking at Keto and trying to figure out fasting for the 24 hr and 36 hr windows.  It is proving difficult but the research for those that can do it looks so impressive.

      Here is a nice webpage to play with which gives calculations and discussions from a Doctor..and  Moose (for those wanting second opinions).    It is nice because it does discuss the issue with you rather than just give u a number and leave you high and dry.  The site also uses many other methods besides BMI so you get a feel for a range rather than a one number edict. 

http://halls.md/ideal-weight/body.htm

      How can you get where you are going if you don't know where you are going?

      So I was wondering what other posters are doing?  Do you have goals?  An ideal weight?  Ideal measurements?  Do you have objectives?  Less medication?  More mobility?  The desire to buy a new wardrobe?  :lol:   Better sex life?   More attractive?  I think it would help in the area of our discussions if we had more of a handle on what is poison and what is pleasure for a member.  Just a thought. 

      I appreciate everyone's comments and if you are really offensive I just don't reply.  Constructive and sincere criticism is always welcome.   Rudeness and endless opinions with no real proof or evidence are fine...but you are wasting your time.  I like good research studies.  I also like good presentations of the work on youtube. 

       Let the ranting begin.......

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No target weight here as its useless in my situation (BMI says Im obese while my body says something different). Just want my lower abs to show even more upper ones are good already. With better stamina comes a better sex life. People who are fit are far better in bed so that helps. 

 

I do watch my food intake because I have learned that exercise alone just not cut it. The magic comes when your diet and your exercise are both good. 

 

I certainly believe that eating less and eating the right thing helps. I know it does for me. I have a few meals that i calculated the caloric and protein value for and I use them. I weight my food and cook for myself. So i pretty much know how much food is going into me. (i do eat out but not often).

 

I don't mind eating a meal more then once.. i always eat the same breakfast (maybe 1 time a week i change it). I weigh how much it all is so yes I do really keep track of stuff and it works for me. It would not work for people who have no structure in their life or like eating many different things. (I only act like this in the weight loss phase.. not in maintenance)

Edited by robblok
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8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I weigh 106kg and should weigh around 90.

 

Is it going to happen? No.

 

I can totally respect that far more then people moaning that they can't do it and blame outside factors. I know quite a few people who are overweight and just accept it and know they can lose the weight but it would mean doing things they don't like (cutting back on alcohol and stuff like that). Its good when people make choices and accept the responsibility. 

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      I am afraid in a total interconnected society there are few personal responsibility decisions that don't effect the group.       I have heard from smoker's the "nobody's business but mine" if I do argument.  Well when they get sick they start using up medical services and if they have no medical insurance it is my RESPONSIBILITY!  I get to help pay.  I have always been in favor of high high taxes on booze and cigarettes.  I also favor huge taxes on the manufacture.  Let those exercising their responsibility to be responsible  PAY for that responsibility.  They can pay for the drunk driving accidents with higher insurance rates.  However, No amount of high tax brings the sober driver and his passenger back to life.    Who cares for the those that are left behind?  There are some things no amount of taxes to society can correct.  Indeed there are few decisions of personal responsibility that don't effect society.  Now why am I making this rant!  

       The western obesity epidemic is spiraling out of control and starting to cost 10's of billions in healthcare.  Should we have a sugar tax?  I think so!  Should it be high enough to dissuade people from drinking sugary carb drinks and eating candy bars?  I think so!  Or are the proud or callous obese going to sign-off on waivers that keep their personal responsibility personal and agree not seek medical treatments and not get into insurance pools raising the cost for everyone?  And will they sit at home and die peacefully of heart disease without bothering the rest of us?   Not calling an ambulance!  Not checking into a county hospital on the dole?   And do they have enough life insurance and savings that their loved ones will not need help from the rest of society?

         My father was a right-wing republican personal responsibility kook.  He ended up using almost 2 million dollars of medicare money having 4 massive heart attacks.   No he never paid 2 million to medicare.  He paid a measly 1% or so of his payroll tax.  Should he have paid more?  

        Should we let those dieting and trying to be more responsible use insurance and medical facilities even if we barred the group not concerned about their health?  

        What is the solution?  It sure ain't as easy as someone saying,"Oh, I will just be fat!  Don't effect anyone but me!"  I don't celebrate stupidity!  

         Sorry for the long rant!  My sinuses are killing me from the humid rain of the last 2 days.

        

      

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20 hours ago, dontoearth said:

      I am afraid in a total interconnected society there are few personal responsibility decisions that don't effect the group.       I have heard from smoker's the "nobody's business but mine" if I do argument.  Well when they get sick they start using up medical services and if they have no medical insurance it is my RESPONSIBILITY!  I get to help pay.  I have always been in favor of high high taxes on booze and cigarettes.  I also favor huge taxes on the manufacture.  Let those exercising their responsibility to be responsible  PAY for that responsibility.  They can pay for the drunk driving accidents with higher insurance rates.  However, No amount of high tax brings the sober driver and his passenger back to life.    Who cares for the those that are left behind?  There are some things no amount of taxes to society can correct.  Indeed there are few decisions of personal responsibility that don't effect society.  Now why am I making this rant!  

       The western obesity epidemic is spiraling out of control and starting to cost 10's of billions in healthcare.  Should we have a sugar tax?  I think so!  Should it be high enough to dissuade people from drinking sugary carb drinks and eating candy bars?  I think so!  Or are the proud or callous obese going to sign-off on waivers that keep their personal responsibility personal and agree not seek medical treatments and not get into insurance pools raising the cost for everyone?  And will they sit at home and die peacefully of heart disease without bothering the rest of us?   Not calling an ambulance!  Not checking into a county hospital on the dole?   And do they have enough life insurance and savings that their loved ones will not need help from the rest of society?

         My father was a right-wing republican personal responsibility kook.  He ended up using almost 2 million dollars of medicare money having 4 massive heart attacks.   No he never paid 2 million to medicare.  He paid a measly 1% or so of his payroll tax.  Should he have paid more?  

        Should we let those dieting and trying to be more responsible use insurance and medical facilities even if we barred the group not concerned about their health?  

        What is the solution?  It sure ain't as easy as someone saying,"Oh, I will just be fat!  Don't effect anyone but me!"  I don't celebrate stupidity!  

         Sorry for the long rant!  My sinuses are killing me from the humid rain of the last 2 days.

        

      

I understand what you are saying but sugar tax is not an option. Just tax people who are too obese and buy bad foods. (probably to hard), but punishing everyone because some can't handle it is something I hate. Same with drug laws, many can handle drugs.. but because some cant we all cant use them.  Alcohol is a hard drug but its freely available and they just punish the people who misuse it (great). That is how it should be for other drugs too just punish those that misuse it. Now I would go so far the same applies for food. I know its almost impossible but why should people like me who almost never use sugar or eat bad foods be punished if we eat them once in a while. We are not the problem, obese people are. People who eat bad foods and are obese should pay more or be restricted not those who can handle it and dont burden the health system. Maybe there should be a discount for those who live healthy on insurance.. .. anyway point is don't punish everyone because some can't handle stuff. 

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   A tax is not a punishment.  It is how we run our society.   You buy gas the gas tax goes into the roads.  These are what we call use tax.  The person paying the tax directly uses the service.  If you walk to work and school or work from home.  You don't pay this tax.  If you take a taxi you pay a tiny fraction in your fare!

    You pay a real estate tax they build some schools and pay the teachers.   Everyone can use them free of any additional charges.  People with 10 kids really ride that system!  However, for single people that own real estate is this a punishment?  Or are there some benefits we think society should have?  I went to school so it isn't like I didn't use the service at all.  I just didn't have 10 kids to ride the system.

    Use tax are the fairest possible tax.  Especially if it is a use tax on a discretionary item.  You don't ever have to pay a single dime of the tax.  Just don't buy soda pop!   In fact the tax is scaled!  A person buying one soda pop a month is paying less and less likely to need any of the ambulance service, emergency room service, expensive medical treatments etc.  A person buying a soda several times a day is more likely to use ambulance, hospital and is paying more lots and lots more.  You might pay 5 cents for the purchase of your one soda a month.  An obese person might pay about $12 USD a month.  (8 sodas a day) 

      I can't get out of income tax and most of my other taxes.  I would like it if more taxes were converted to use tax format.  Let those that use the service or product pay the tax.  I don't have any kids in school so am I being punished by having to pay the property tax? 

     I have never used the fire department.  Am I being punished because my property taxes include a fire dept.  Wouldn't I really want that service if I needed it?

      In all taxes are a fact of life until we die.   In the USA we already tax alcohol and cigarettes.  They are taxed on the usage.  I don't pay either one of those taxes. I like that!  If someone is sucking down a huge amount of booze and cigs they are paying 100's of times more than the guy that buys one package of liquor for New Year's night only.  That would be me!

      So far, only one or two cities in the USA have done a soda tax.  They asked the voters if the money should go to city medical services.  The taxes were passed by the voters overwhelmingly.  There was opposition funded by Pepsi and Coke.  In fact they spent millions and are now in the courts whining away.  I hope they loose.

 

Edited by dontoearth
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4 hours ago, dontoearth said:

   A tax is not a punishment.  It is how we run our society.   You buy gas the gas tax goes into the roads.  These are what we call use tax.  The person paying the tax directly uses the service.  If you walk to work and school or work from home.  You don't pay this tax.  If you take a taxi you pay a tiny fraction in your fare!

    You pay a real estate tax they build some schools and pay the teachers.   Everyone can use them free of any additional charges.  People with 10 kids really ride that system!  However, for single people that own real estate is this a punishment?  Or are there some benefits we think society should have?  I went to school so it isn't like I didn't use the service at all.  I just didn't have 10 kids to ride the system.

    Use tax are the fairest possible tax.  Especially if it is a use tax on a discretionary item.  You don't ever have to pay a single dime of the tax.  Just don't buy soda pop!   In fact the tax is scaled!  A person buying one soda pop a month is paying less and less likely to need any of the ambulance service, emergency room service, expensive medical treatments etc.  A person buying a soda several times a day is more likely to use ambulance, hospital and is paying more lots and lots more.  You might pay 5 cents for the purchase of your one soda a month.  An obese person might pay about $12 USD a month.  (8 sodas a day) 

      I can't get out of income tax and most of my other taxes.  I would like it if more taxes were converted to use tax format.  Let those that use the service or product pay the tax.  I don't have any kids in school so am I being punished by having to pay the property tax? 

     I have never used the fire department.  Am I being punished because my property taxes include a fire dept.  Wouldn't I really want that service if I needed it?

      In all taxes are a fact of life until we die.   In the USA we already tax alcohol and cigarettes.  They are taxed on the usage.  I don't pay either one of those taxes. I like that!  If someone is sucking down a huge amount of booze and cigs they are paying 100's of times more than the guy that buys one package of liquor for New Year's night only.  That would be me!

      So far, only one or two cities in the USA have done a soda tax.  They asked the voters if the money should go to city medical services.  The taxes were passed by the voters overwhelmingly.  There was opposition funded by Pepsi and Coke.  In fact they spent millions and are now in the courts whining away.  I hope they loose.

 

Tax is used to help those that would overuse the system.. the obese guy who cant get enough of the soft drinks.. not the slim guy or the exercise guy who burns it off. It should only target the person who would use the health-system too much because of it. That is the obese guy. Maybe slim people should get a tax discount to offset this. Sounds much more fair to me. If you want to modify behavior.. modify it of those who are at risk.. not of those that can use the product and control themselves. 

 

Your house analogy has no grounds because someone with a house would want to use the fire department. However an obese person is more likely to use healthcare because of his overweight than the slim in shape guy that eats right. So the guy that eats right should not be taxed if he sometimes takes some sugar because he is not the one at risk. Get it.. I bet you do.. just dont want to acknowledge it. 

 

Same goes with drugs, I have used my fair share of recreational drugs I am just not an addictive personality.. others are why should i not be able to use them as I am not at risk but they are. Whole point is you have to modify behavior of those at risk not of those who are not at risk.. by doing so you only punish those with good behavior because others cant control themselves. 

 

Anyway.. its a moral discussion and doubt it will ever happen. Obese would cry out discrimination. 

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2 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

Tax is used to help those that would overuse the system.. the obese guy who cant get enough of the soft drinks.. not the slim guy or the exercise guy who burns it off. It should only target the person who would use the health-system too much because of it. That is the obese guy. Maybe slim people should get a tax discount to offset this. Sounds much more fair to me. If you want to modify behavior.. modify it of those who are at risk.. not of those that can use the product and control themselves. 

 

Your house analogy has no grounds because someone with a house would want to use the fire department. However an obese person is more likely to use healthcare because of his overweight than the slim in shape guy that eats right. So the guy that eats right should not be taxed if he sometimes takes some sugar because he is not the one at risk. Get it.. I bet you do.. just dont want to acknowledge it. 

 

Same goes with drugs, I have used my fair share of recreational drugs I am just not an addictive personality.. others are why should i not be able to use them as I am not at risk but they are. Whole point is you have to modify behavior of those at risk not of those who are not at risk.. by doing so you only punish those with good behavior because others cant control themselves. 

 

Anyway.. its a moral discussion and doubt it will ever happen. Obese would cry out discrimination. 

      I only repeat you would not pay a tax if you didn't buy the soda.  If you buy one you pay 5 cents.  Are you having a hard time scrapping 5 cents together? :rolleyes:  If you buy 8 a day you end up paying 12 dollars a month.   You have indeed covered risk appropriately.   You have almost no risk.  You paid almost nothing. No purchase you pay nothing!   The obese person pays a lot and has high risk.    Do the math!   You might want to look at proportional probability and weighted probability study sometime.  Very rare that a person has zero risk.   And can you remain in that state?   It seems less and less people can.

     Now that 60% of our population is obese the majority are at risk.   We make society work for the many not the blessed few!  Thank God!  God has already given them a gift they should be thankful and quiet!  :)

     Anyway,  we are off topic in the thread. 

      I thought you would post some goals on bf% or maybe even discuss the perfect V shape since you are working on lower abs which must involve your waist size?

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12 hours ago, dontoearth said:

      I only repeat you would not pay a tax if you didn't buy the soda.  If you buy one you pay 5 cents.  Are you having a hard time scrapping 5 cents together? :rolleyes:  If you buy 8 a day you end up paying 12 dollars a month.   You have indeed covered risk appropriately.   You have almost no risk.  You paid almost nothing. No purchase you pay nothing!   The obese person pays a lot and has high risk.    Do the math!   You might want to look at proportional probability and weighted probability study sometime.  Very rare that a person has zero risk.   And can you remain in that state?   It seems less and less people can.

     Now that 60% of our population is obese the majority are at risk.   We make society work for the many not the blessed few!  Thank God!  God has already given them a gift they should be thankful and quiet!  :)

     Anyway,  we are off topic in the thread. 

      I thought you would post some goals on bf% or maybe even discuss the perfect V shape since you are working on lower abs which must involve your waist size?

Yes we are going off topic still its a nice discussion but let it be its not practical and your right. I am just against people paying extra when they are not risk only if its a little bit. 

 

I posted goals on bodyfat, i want visible abs. My upper abs are visible my lower abs only have a little fat on them. The problem is that i can show you a picture then i look like i have great abs (right angle right light). So its really hard to know what is reality on any picture as you can change things a lot with the right light (not to mention Photoshop). 

 

Also we are all different genetically if my abs for instance were thicker they would look better even at higher bodyfat. It looks like my lower abs will always be just flat (not getting them thick and believe me i try). My friend recently made a remark on some pictures i send him that my back looks good. I told him I don't like back workouts and don't put any extra effort in it. It just comes to show that some points are down to genetics even if you put much work in it it will only go as far as your genes will let it go. 

 

What I would kill for is a bod pod or DEXA scan for bodyfat, at my levels its real hard to see if I am progressing or not. The scales alone don't say much because the weight that i must lose is not that much and i can still hold extra water or get extra muscle. A bod pod would be really helpful in that respect or a dexa scan. Skin calipers I got but they require a lot of skill and the margin for error is big. The scales that show bodyfat are always totally off for people like me. 

 

It can be quite frustrating not knowing if progress is made or not because if there is no progress made then you can change something. But if progress is made but its hidden by water or muscle and you change something you might sabotage the whole thing.

 

But I told you I am quite happy how I am doing this only for kicks. I went fishing recently in a big predator lake (paid for fishing) there were quite some pics made of me (was catching a 300 and 200 lbs aripaima) After looking at the pics I was surprised how big I was (muscular way) on some pics and how (relatively) normal i was on others. To me it just shows that a lot depends on how the picture is taken. In general i look smaller then my real size on pics. 

 

But given the fact that veins appear on my arms and so on my body-fat must be reasonably low. I am still not giving up and trying to see if I can go even lower or not. (there are people who can go far lower). I told you I was trying the bromocriptine, its still too early to say because its not a magic bullet and will only help if I am on a caloric deficit and then there are still people who don't respond to it.  

 

So now you know where I am.. I am unsure :D if I am still making progress but happy how I look. 

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8 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

I'm about 220 down from over 300.  I'm still losing, about a pound a week, sometimes  more sometimes less...but I've started lifting again so I'm building muscle and recomposing my body.  I'm aiming for about 170-180, my high school weight.  Don't see any reason why I can't get that low.  

 

It's not a race, it's a journey.  I'm happy to give myself another few years to reach my goals.  My primary concern was to improve my health and fitness, which I have been successful in doing.  Now I want to be vane!

 

Yes i understand the feeling.. i wanted to go as low as I good.. making myself look good. First its about health.. then its about how you want to look.

 

I know its not a race but we all want results, its hard when progress is hard to measure. But good on you and yes lifting helps to hold on to muscle.. maybe even building some muscle. But you do know that building muscle on a caloric deficit is usually not possible (unless your on testosterone or lifting again after years of not lifting (muscle memory) or when your an absolute beginner). 

 

 

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1 minute ago, robblok said:

 

Yes i understand the feeling.. i wanted to go as low as I good.. making myself look good. First its about health.. then its about how you want to look.

 

I know its not a race but we all want results, its hard when progress is hard to measure. But good on you and yes lifting helps to hold on to muscle.. maybe even building some muscle. But you do know that building muscle on a caloric deficit is usually not possible (unless your on testosterone or lifting again after years of not lifting (muscle memory) or when your an absolute beginner). 

 

 

Yeah I haven't really bulked up much after initial gains, but I am getting nicely toned.  I'm going for a 'swimmer body' more than a 'gym rat'  :)  I  love weights though.

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