adhd

does the court listen to 12+ year old children's wishes in case of divorce ?

39 posts in this topic

just wondering, in case of divorce, does the court listen to 12 year old children's wishes to chose whom to live with  ?

 

my wife is a subclinical psychopath, imagine DEXTER without the killings

 

manipulating people, exploiting weaknesses, web of deceit, starting big arguments over nothing, always wanting to win an argument, threatening : no more visa extention, divorce, calling police over small arguments, 

threatening children not to translate the nasty things she says to them or there will be even worse consequences.

 

the children know their mother is a selfish psychopath... they have only one classmate that understands them as their mother is also wacked.

 

I hope be happy to divorce, but do not want the children to be unprotected with this psycho.

 

So what are the chances that the court would listen to them in case of a contested divorce ?

 

I would prefere to stay in the marriage, just for the kids sake, otherwise, who knows what that monster person might afflict to them, than to leave, which would be the quick & coward way to do, but life is HELL.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the court does listen to a child's wishes, but obviously the outcome takes into account all the evidence not just that.

Pm sent.

HL  

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MickeyIdea is 100% correct, though not having personal experience 1st hand, I do know of a few instances where foreigners (father) have been awarded custody of the children over that of the mother.

There was a case not too long back (I believe Chiang Mai) where during divorce proceedings that the judge was gobsmacked that the foreign father only wanted custody of the child and no financial settlement, he awarded custody without hesitation to the father.

 

Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...good in theory....

 

..but practically.....

 

...when the children are virtual prisoners...to the point that you cannot even communicate with them....

 

...and they have already be traumatized and frightened out of their minds by the wife.....and her clan...and gang...

 

...Your daddy will disappear"...'Your daddy will be gone'....'Something bad will happen to your daddy'.....

 

...'If you go to your daddy...no more house...car...school'.......

 

 

...and the first time around your own lawyer duped you in her favor.....even claiming ....'You won'......

 

(...translation...you lost even joint custody and will be lucky to get 5% of the joint assets...)

 

 

...I wish it were true...and could be done.....

 

...trying...hoping...praying.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do really agree with the power of parental alienation but I do absolutely not agree with the below

49 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

you lost even joint custody and will be lucky to get 5% of the joint assets

 

Juvenile will not easily remove custody at all, it could be that the shared custody is useless because of parental alienation, yes, but that is a different matter. Family court is fair when it comes to sharing marriage assets 50 / 50

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is only your opinion,she will have a different story to tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Yes,


Children's' wishes means more in Thailand than in western countries.  Juvenile court also takes their wishes into account earlier than in western countries, I have seen court use the wishes of a 9 year old to put pressure on the other parent. The Thai thinking is a bit "You shouldn't force children / it is not good to force children", more than in western Juvenile Courts

 

In one way that is good as I certainly don't think that it is good for kids to be ordered to live with one parent one week and the other parent the next week if they don't want but it also creates a problem when parental alienation is involved.

 

I assume that you live in Thailand and that you are legally married here
Court will clearly listen to a 12 year old but there are many considerations:

 

1) Evidence is King: You use a lot of words to describe the mothers personality. If the mother is favoured in court, then none of that ever happened if you don't have evidence. It works the other way around too. If you are favoured, then court will use what you have to put pressure on the mother and ignore her ranting

 

1.5) Forgot: There is nothing that judges are more bored with than mothers and fathers fighting among themselves. You ranting about how bad the mother is not going to help the judges decide what is best for the childs' future. You need to present that you are the best parent for the future of the children and that you are happy to help your children to see their mother whenever they wants. If you're a good parent and she's a bad one, then they will clear the problem 

 

2) Either legal guardian can veto that the child leaves Thailand until reach majority

 

3) Beware of the power of the intimidation that a mother (parent) can put on a child, I have it at home with my own daughter (same age as yours) and I have been interpreting in court and was disappointed with that Thai Juvenile courts didn't pay as much attention to parental alienation as they should have

 

4) Thai Juvenile court will not be biased against a westerner, they are generally very fair in that sense. It is your Thai lawyer that you have to watch out with. I have seen the Fathers lawyer supporting the mother more than the father in court. The big question is why and answer to that lies in point 5 below

 

5) Thai Juvenile Courts want mutual agreement in custody cases and they really go to length negotiating one. If the judges want a negotiated solution that is not good for you, then your Thai lawyer ends up in a difficult solution, he is so small compared to the judges and he is losing face if he fights hard for you. Your Thai lawyer is very unlikely to do this so beware here. The best workaround that I have found is to make very clear from the beginning that you prefer court order, not mutual agreement and you will not accept any mutual agreement that does not include what you fight for. Tell him court order good, mutual agreement bad and watch his face :) Tell him, I have evidence, if it's not good for my children then we just appeal and watch his face

 

6) Feelings matter more in Thai courts. The court puts pressure on the father to accept a mutual agreement if the mother is at advantage and vice versa. You say the mother calls the police over small things. Beware if she makes police reports planning to use them in court. You write that the mother is manipulative. A person like that is thinking and is likely to find other things to use to her advantage in court. They shouldn't matter of course as they are one sided but trust me, they do

 

7) You are at great advantage if you really have the children on your side - if they really accept to takes side and dare to - not good for the kids to have to do. The Thai judges will interview the child / children without parents and what the children says really matters 

 

Don't believe your lawyer if he says that appeals take a long time in Thailand. They don't in Juvenile cases. You should be in the Appeals court within one year

 

Don't believe if your lawyer if he wants to postpone handing in formal evidence, witnesses - if the mother is favoured - . Yes, perhaps there is a more tactical time to hand in evidence / use witnesses but you can negate that by just forcing - You have seen my evidence / witnesses, order then. The judges have the evidence and will most likely choose to put pressure on the other party

 

I'd advise you to plan this carefully and don't rush. 6 to 12 months more won't matter in the long run. You can end up with 2 days for you 5 for the mother if she plays dirty. If you have good reasons then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to get 5/2. If a child is 12 years old, then it's sometimes possible to get that the child decides herself which parent he / she wants to be with.

 

Education and health costs for children is by default shared. Never give away that education cost should be shared without getting anything in return. If I decide school, sure I can pay, otherwise share cost...

 

Give them a secret diary and let them fill it in themselves.

 

The kids are 12, they will at the end of the day decide the outcome of this regardless of what the court says

 

All I can think of now, Good Luck

 

Mikey and Idea  

 

A superb post by Mikey and Idea. The best I have read for a long time.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't help on court bit never been divorced but good luck. I wonder what your wife is saying about you!!!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you presume your whacko wife would contest a divorce proposal from you? Her behaviour as described by you suggests deep unhappiness.  Use your wit and wiles to create a moment of your choice to make your proposal. I would quietly make arrangements with your personal funds, assets, properties etc so that you are protected as much as you can be before taking the step.  Be smart for your kids' sake, as well as yourself. Plenty of texts available on divorce requirements and processes in LOS. Also plenty of good lawyers. Do your research. Be as thorough in your planning as you would be with any worthwhile rescue mission. Is there some law in Thailand that prohibits farang blokes from being as cunning, deceitful and ruthless as the life partners they have chosen so unwisely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the right of a child is to be heard in court at age 12 and above as well choose where he wants to live with his father or his mother

international right

http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

 

and 

https://treaties.un.org/doc/source/signature/2012/CTC_4-11d.pdf

 

and

http://www.kidsrights.org/About-Us

 

for more information and you see that Thailand has been accredited for doing so well in protecting the right of children. 

As well that the US not did sign this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....you do not have to agree with a stated fact....it will not change that fact....

 

...unless you have at least hundreds of thousands...if not a couple of million of baht to pay....that will be the outcome......

 

...and even if you pay....it guarantees nothing.....

 

...keep the idealistic illusion if you like....

 

...bottom line....'us'...and ....'them'.....

 

...and they stick together......

 

...I wish you could find a case where it is otherwise...then I would hire that lawyer.....

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

BANGKOK 27 July 2017 03:29
Sponsors