PhDEducation

Beware of Bangkok Bank

146 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I quite agree and of course that's why I have my social paid into a non-Thai (and non-US) bank account with full ATM & internet banking access

 Sounds like you are saying it goes into an account not based in Thailand or the U.S.....another country?

 

But if it is in Thailand then it's still actually a Thai bank since it must operate under a Bank of Thailand license and regulations although the bank may carry the name of a foreign bank.

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I'd never fully trust a Thai bank again, so much incompetence, lies and deceit over the years. I use Krungsri now, at least that is owned by the Japanese, or so they say. No nonsense from them so far.

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Below is some information from the Social Security Administration (SSA) Program Operations Manual System (POMS)....POMS is what the SSA calls its regulations.   The information talks payment to foreign financial institutions, what is acceptable and what is not, etc.  Lots of sublinks in the first reference below which will take you to other POMS which talk more specifics.  

 

Can not find any thing saying joint accounts are not acceptable to the SSA.  But as always the bank can set it's own policy regarding what type of account you can have.

 

Background and Policy for Direct Deposit Outside the U.S.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.NSF/lnx/0202402201

 

Acceptable Types of Foreign Financials Institutions (identifying acceptable and unacceptable financial institutions & accounts)

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.NSF/lnx/0202402030

 

Account Titles

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.NSF/lnx/0202402050#a

Quote

 

1. Single or joint accounts

Beneficiaries who are their own payees may have his or her payments deposited to a single or joint ownership account.

 

 

 

Thai banks have some policies regarding joint accounts that are very different from what we are use to with our bank accounts in western countries.   For example, in the U.S. you can have full SMS alerts service on a joint account; and assuming Bangkok Bank's policy for full SMS Alerts on a joint account reflects other Thai bank's policy, on a Bangkok Bank "joint" account you "can not" have full SMS alerts service.  I'm think you can still get limited SMS alerts for certain SMS alerts like incoming foreign payments/transfers but full SMS Alerts service you can not have on a joint account.   

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/SMSAlerts/Pages/alert.aspx

Capture.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Also in Thailand, joint bank accounts are "frozen" upon the death of one of the account holders until the Final Will is probated.  It's not automatically assumed that the other owner(s) of a joint account have the rights of survivorship or even own a proportionate share of the account, like half the account if there are two names on the account.  So, if someone was using an account joint with their wife for deposit of the SS and their wife died, they could find themselves unable to access their SS during the couple months it could take to settle the details of the wife's estate.  

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Seems like you could have a recurring transfer without an ATM card on the account.  Or maybe they are on to that, too.  Or are electronic payments forbidden.

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1 hour ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Seems like you could have a recurring transfer without an ATM card on the account.  Or maybe they are on to that, too.  Or are electronic payments forbidden.

With a Bangkok Bank direct deposit account you can not do an ibanking transfer "out" but you can do an ibanking transfer in.   I have done several ibanking transfers in over the years...but try a transfer out and you get a transaction error (also tried several times to include a minute ago).

 

To withdraw or transfer money out your must show up in person to prove you are still breathing. 

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ID: 57   Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Pib said:

Give me a link to the U.S. regulation if you can.  I doubt there really is such a regulation but I stand ready to say I stand corrected.  

 

Edit:  What Bangkok Bank is doing is trying to comply with the intent of the International Direct Deposit Program where U.S. govt agencies will send pension payments to selected countries which have the capability to receive U.S. govt payments and have signed up to the IDD program.  However, Thailand is not one of those countries.   But Bangkok Bank want sto comply with the intent and minimize fraudulent transactions like the example I gave above.    If that foreign bank and/or the U.S. govt pension payment agency allows U.S. govt pension payments then the following special provision applies for "joint accounts" if allowed.

 

Partial quote of IDD signup form indicating Joint Accounts are allowed at foreign banks

 

 

 

 

IDD sign up form.pdf

Please give me a link to the Bankok Bank policy you mention.  Where did you read or hear that it is the Bangkok Bank policy (vs USG) to restrict the account?

Edited by mesquite

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ID: 58   Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, NancyL said:

Does it really matter if it's the U.S. gov't or Bangkok Bank who has set up the rule that the incoming U.S. gov't payments must go into an account that doesn't have ATM access, isn't a joint account and that the recipient has to show up in person each month to claim?  I've heard stories each way about which party insists on these restrictions.  The fact is that, Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank to accept ACH deposits from the U.S.  and these are the rules in place.

 

I do find it interesting that in the U.S. gov't pension payments can go into joint accounts, with ATM access.  That's exactly what we do with Hubby's monthly SS and use it to pay our U.S.-based expenses.  In theory, I could fail to tell the U.S. gov't that he died here, right?  Also interestingly, his former employer in the U.S. has no such restrictions, so his private pension is direct deposited into our joint Bangkok Bank account and I use it to pay our Thailand-based expenses.  Again, I suppose I could fail to tell them when he croaks, also, right?  

 

In reality that won't be the case, because I'll want to get my hot little hands on his life insurance policies' payouts, so I'll be hounding the U.S. Consulate for those "death of U.S. citizen abroad" certificates that work just like a U.S. death certificate to notify financial institutions of someone's death.

hmmm...what kind of money are we talking, Darling? :sleep:

 

Edited by mesquite

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ID: 59   Posted (edited)

Wit so many banks in the us doing  free ACH, it clearly seems foolish to leave it up  to the federal government and a foreign bank.  It would be better to control the transfers yourself.  Only doing them quarterly for one thing.  I would bet the people who have become defacto stateless, without even a us account make up the brunt of Nancy's clients and don't get me started on the bogus letters.  I've got three senior us citizens near me...all use the letters, and they barely make 65k between them and have zero in savings.  One told me the SS check deposit is free at bkbank...I have very serious doubts.  Like the 50 THB they charge you on a counter withdrawal; it maynotbe listed, but it is sure as heck incorporated into what shows as the deposit.

Edited by KhonKaenKowboy
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I am no lover of Bangkok Bank since I moved the bulk of my savings out here, say 8 years ago.

I asked the teller what was the best interest rate I could obtain and she sent me to see, an older but younger than me, woman who had here own cubical in far corner.

She checked my Book, then in answer to my question on Rates Stated You must not move any money from this account for 3 months.

Er but I want best rate for my money, she repeated herself No move money. 

I left annoyed and spoke to a Thai lady who had been in Banking some years before.

She said that some banks the staff shared in a  'Prize' when a  large deposit was made and left for 3 months minimum.

I went following day and closed my account.

Now with UOB for many years and good friendly service.

 

john

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1 hour ago, mesquite said:

Please give me a link to the Bankok Bank policy you mention.  Where did you read or hear that it is the Bangkok Bank policy (vs USG) to restrict the account?

Please review my posts which quote/reference Social Security POMS/regulations that joint accounts are allowed....also with no mention of not allowing ATM cards, ibanking transfers out, etc.  Therefore, it's Bangkok Bank's policy in the restrictions they impose and while trying to say it's SSA regulations dictating the limitations...that is, deflect the true source of the limitations.  

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12 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

I am no lover of Bangkok Bank since I moved the bulk of my savings out here, say 8 years ago.

I asked the teller what was the best interest rate I could obtain and she sent me to see, an older but younger than me, woman who had here own cubical in far corner.

She checked my Book, then in answer to my question on Rates Stated You must not move any money from this account for 3 months.

Er but I want best rate for my money, she repeated herself No move money. 

I left annoyed and spoke to a Thai lady who had been in Banking some years before.

She said that some banks the staff shared in a  'Prize' when a  large deposit was made and left for 3 months minimum.

I went following day and closed my account.

Now with UOB for many years and good friendly service.

 

john

Mine is paying 1.8% on a 12 month, 1.7% on a 5 month, and 1.5% on savings (no withholding).  Kind of odd how hard it is to get numbers out of people on TVF....

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39 minutes ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:
55 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

I am no lover of Bangkok Bank since I moved the bulk of my savings out here, say 8 years ago.

I asked the teller what was the best interest rate I could obtain and she sent me to see, an older but younger than me, woman who had here own cubical in far corner.

She checked my Book, then in answer to my question on Rates Stated You must not move any money from this account for 3 months.

Er but I want best rate for my money, she repeated herself No move money. 

I left annoyed and spoke to a Thai lady who had been in Banking some years before.

She said that some banks the staff shared in a  'Prize' when a  large deposit was made and left for 3 months minimum.

I went following day and closed my account.

Now with UOB for many years and good friendly service.

 

john

 

39 minutes ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Mine is paying 1.8% on a 12 month, 1.7% on a 5 month, and 1.5% on savings (no withholding).  Kind of odd how hard it is to get numbers out of people on TVF....

 

The Kad Suan Kaew branch of Bangkok Bank clearly posts these numbers also.    As does the Bangkok Bank website:  http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/Accounts/FixedDeposits/Pages/SpecialFixedDeposits.aspx

 

JonWilly, you may not have realized that your account at Bangkok Bank was "Fixed Deposit" account which meant you had committed to keeping the funds on deposit for a certain period of time when you opened the account in order to obtain a certain interest rate.  That's what the ladies were trying to tell you when they said "no move money".  What color was your bankbook?  If it was blue, then you could move your money at any time without a loss of accrued interest, if not then you lost your accrued interest by moving your money before the end of the contractual period.

 

And the answer to "what is the best interest rate I can obtain?"  depends on how long you're willing to tie up your money.  I think they were trying to tell you that you'd already made a commitment with your funds and to come back in three months and ask the question again because the interest rates will be different.  

 

Gheesh, Bangkok Bank has a good website and little research would be good before you go in to ask these questions, esp. if the people in the branch in question don't speak good English -- or if you speak non-standard English or heavily accented English.  (I'm sorry, but the staff at BB-KSK doesn't seem to have problems understanding my well-enunciated midwest U.S. English, but they tell me all the time they can't understand many Aussies or people from the north of England.)

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1 hour ago, jonwilly said:

I am no lover of Bangkok Bank since I moved the bulk of my savings out here, say 8 years ago.

I asked the teller what was the best interest rate I could obtain and she sent me to see, an older but younger than me, woman who had here own cubical in far corner.

She checked my Book, then in answer to my question on Rates Stated You must not move any money from this account for 3 months.

Er but I want best rate for my money, she repeated herself No move money. 

I left annoyed and spoke to a Thai lady who had been in Banking some years before.

She said that some banks the staff shared in a  'Prize' when a  large deposit was made and left for 3 months minimum.

I went following day and closed my account.

Now with UOB for many years and good friendly service.

 

john

 

You asked for the best interest rate, so they offered you a Term Deposit with a higher rate of interest... exactly as you requested... so in response you closed your account... :crazy:

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1 hour ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Wit so many banks in the us doing  free ACH, it clearly seems foolish to leave it up  to the federal government and a foreign bank.  It would be better to control the transfers yourself.  Only doing them quarterly for one thing.  I would bet the people who have become defacto stateless, without even a us account make up the brunt of Nancy's clients and don't get me started on the bogus letters.  I've got three senior us citizens near me...all use the letters, and they barely make 65k between them and have zero in savings.  One told me the SS check deposit is free at bkbank...I have very serious doubts.  Like the 50 THB they charge you on a counter withdrawal; it maynotbe listed, but it is sure as heck incorporated into what shows as the deposit.

Well, the costs of direct deposit of SS at Bangkok Bank is fairly low.  Not zero, but cheap and very, very reliable.  It's OK for younger people, those with all their marbles, those with reliable partners and accounts here in Thailand that serve as reserve to use ACH transfer for SS.  That's, in effect what Hubby does.  

 

But for older people on their own, living from pension check to pension check, I recommend Bangkok Bank direct deposit.  I've seen too cases where people like this had their SS deposited into a U.S. account and few used ACH transfer.  

 

Most used their ATM card a couple times a month to get 20,000 baht with 180 baht fee each time -- the most foolish way to transfer money long-term.  The ATM machine eats the card and then what?  The bank won't send the card to a foreign address and the friend/son/ex-wife's address on file with the bank isn't valid anymore for accepting a new card.  Or they become infirm and give the ATM card to someone to get the money and guess what happens?  

 

The few who do use ACH interbank transfers operate just fine, until they're involved in an accident or in the final stages of a terminal disease and so whacked out  that they can no longer operate their computer to make a transfer.  If you're going to use this route, be sure to have a U.S. credit card, set up with monthly autopay from the account where your SS is deposited.  That's what we do with Hubby's SS account.  I've lucked into some situations with people I've assisted where that's what they did and we managed to keep the bills paid while they were in a coma for months or assisted living for dementia.  So far, no one's objected to me using a client's credit card to pay hospital or nursing home bills.  (Sometimes, you just have to take risks if you're going to help someone in need -- it's not like I'm buying shoes at Central Festival with the credit card of a terminally ill person.)

 

And speaking about using the funds of an incapacitated person to take care of him -- banks in Thailand will release funds from someone's account to pay hospital bills.  They don't do this casually.  It's required to bring a letter from the hospital, the outstanding hospital bill and then often the bank sends a representative to the hospital to check out the situation.  They make out a check, using funds from the person's account, with the check made out to the hospital.  Unfortunately, they will not release funds from an incapacitated person account to pay rent on his condo, utility bills, etc.  Just hospital bills.  

 

Of course, overseas banks won't do this for someone in Thailand.  This, more than anything else, is why I recommend that people like the three low-income senior citizens living near KKK have their SS direct deposited to BB.  A responsible individual will be able to get to this money to pay hospital bills and keep them alive if they are incapacitated.

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Assuming a hospital will provide ongoing care to someone with a 20k income no insurance or savings.  And they say the millineals are irresponsible.  Everyone should have a few hundred grand THB here in a bank...would at give breathing room to make a plan.  

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ID: 67   Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Wit so many banks in the us doing  free ACH, it clearly seems foolish to leave it up  to the federal government and a foreign bank.  It would be better to control the transfers yourself.  Only doing them quarterly for one thing.  I would bet the people who have become defacto stateless, without even a us account make up the brunt of Nancy's clients and don't get me started on the bogus letters.  I've got three senior us citizens near me...all use the letters, and they barely make 65k between them and have zero in savings.  One told me the SS check deposit is free at bkbank...I have very serious doubts.  Like the 50 THB they charge you on a counter withdrawal; it maynotbe listed, but it is sure as heck incorporated into what shows as the deposit.

The fees for sending in small amounts monthly would be about $11 per month or 132 per year which is significant for someone on a very tight budget.

 

Regarding the bogus letters, I would love to see the "new management" come down hard on those Americans who give inflated numbers for their letters.  Simply require them to show proof at the Consulate before they issue the letter.  No proof, no letter.  As far as past transgressions go, charge them with perjury and "lock 'em up."

Edited by mesquite

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1 hour ago, mesquite said:

Regarding the bogus letters, I would love to see the "new management" come down hard on those Americans who give inflated numbers for their letters.  Simply require them to show proof at the Consulate before they issue the letter.  No proof, no letter.  As far as past transgressions go, charge them with perjury and "lock 'em up."

Edited 1 hour ago by mesquite

Why?

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1 hour ago, mesquite said:

The fees for sending in small amounts monthly would be about $11 per month or 132 per year which is significant for someone on a very tight budget.

 

Regarding the bogus letters, I would love to see the "new management" come down hard on those Americans who give inflated numbers for their letters.  Simply require them to show proof at the Consulate before they issue the letter.  No proof, no letter.  As far as past transgressions go, charge them with perjury and "lock 'em up."

It is not the job of the U.S. gov't to enforce a Thai Imm. rule.  The Aussies, Dutch and other nationalities think the same thing.  

 

All that these consulates/embassies are doing is certifying that the signatures on the documents are valid.

 

Anything more is up to the Thai gov't to enforce their own rules.   I think the "new administration" would agree with this.

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On 1/23/2017 at 11:40 PM, moe666 said:

Never any problem with my Bangkok Bank account and of course I do not have a ATM card, going to bank for withdrawal is inconvient but noworries about being hacked

Ditto - except that I make online transfers to the wife's account and send her down to the ATM whenever I need cash! :smile:

 

On 1/24/2017 at 9:09 AM, sharktooth said:

Switch to Kasikorn. I've been with them for years and I have no complaints. Btw I also have accounts with Lloyds, Santander, HSBC and AFR, but Kasikorn continue to impress me.

Disagree. I switched to Bangkok Bank from Kasikorn after my account with them had been relieved of a significant amount by an ATM fraudster.

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10 hours ago, NancyL said:

The Kad Suan Kaew branch of Bangkok Bank clearly posts these numbers also.    As does the Bangkok Bank website:  http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/Accounts/FixedDeposits/Pages/SpecialFixedDeposits.aspx

 

JonWilly, you may not have realized that your account at Bangkok Bank was "Fixed Deposit" account which meant you had committed to keeping the funds on deposit for a certain period of time when you opened the account in order to obtain a certain interest rate.  That's what the ladies were trying to tell you when they said "no move money".  What color was your bankbook?  If it was blue, then you could move your money at any time without a loss of accrued interest, if not then you lost your accrued interest by moving your money before the end of the contractual period.

 

And the answer to "what is the best interest rate I can obtain?"  depends on how long you're willing to tie up your money.  I think they were trying to tell you that you'd already made a commitment with your funds and to come back in three months and ask the question again because the interest rates will be different.  

 

Gheesh, Bangkok Bank has a good website and little research would be good before you go in to ask these questions, esp. if the people in the branch in question don't speak good English -- or if you speak non-standard English or heavily accented English.  (I'm sorry, but the staff at BB-KSK doesn't seem to have problems understanding my well-enunciated midwest U.S. English, but they tell me all the time they can't understand many Aussies or people from the north of England.)

 

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Bkkbank 5 month paying 1.25%, 11 month 1.375%....by using the competition, you will get an extra 3600 per year on just your 800k....at the five month rate...more than 1/3 more.

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I Politely requested the highest rate for my money.

The lady did not explain any matter just stated in a Formal manner, Do not move your money from this account.

I asked a second time and received the same 'Order'

 

john

UOB which I understand to be the Thai 'Offshoot' of the Union Bank of Singapore have a friendly staff of young polite ladies.

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ID: 75   Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

I Politely requested the highest rate for my money.

The lady did not explain any matter just stated in a Formal manner, Do not move your money from this account.

I asked a second time and received the same 'Order'

 

john

UOB which I understand to be the Thai 'Offshoot' of the Union Bank of Singapore have a friendly staff of young polite ladies.

United Overseas Bank (Thailand) is the Thai subsidiary of the Singaporean Bank. Best bank in the country if not in Asia.

 

BTW - 1.89% for 12 months fixed and 1.4% instant access, Preferred Customers only.

Edited by chiang mai
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BANGKOK 25 April 2017 13:46
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