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Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

784 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Well. as leader of the SNP, her party won 56 of the 59 Westminster seats in 2015. At the Holyrood election the following year, in a system deliberately contrived to prevent any one party from coming close to having a majority, they won 48.8% of the seats. She has shown strong leadership since assuming the role of First Minister, and she continues to do so. I appreciate that many people do not like her for very petty, peurile reasons, but really - is this what the whole debate has come down to?

'Shooting The Messenger' is the supreme modus operandi of the forum Brexiteer team. The bigger the threat, the harder the hit. What they might have in their mind's eye here is maybe similar treatment to that handed out to William Wallace at Smithfield.

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1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

'Shooting The Messenger' is the supreme modus operandi of the forum Brexiteer team. The bigger the threat, the harder the hit. What they might have in their mind's eye here is maybe similar treatment to that handed out to William Wallace at Smithfield.

 

Is that at all relevant. The year is now 2017.

The U.K has been at war with Germany twice in the Last 100 yrs. But thankfully we are now friends,and therefore no need to keep harping on about it.

 

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On Mon Mar 13 2017 at 7:36 PM, ddavidovsky said:

Someone tell this woman that she can't keep calling for referendums every few years.

If she says the goalposts have changed because of Brexit, well, Brexit hasn't happened yet. They should wait several years at least to gauge the effects of Brexit, then she might be able to say things have changed enough.

what  will happen if 1.  She does not get  support for a referendum 

 

or 2.  She does but UK goverment does not allow it

 

or 3.  there is another referendum which she subsequently loses

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8 minutes ago, gummy said:

what  will happen if 1.  She does not get  support for a referendum 

 

or 2.  She does but UK goverment does not allow it

 

or 3.  there is another referendum which she subsequently loses

Answers to 1 and 3 are obvious

On no.2, probably a court challenge to see if consulting the Scottish people is a reserved matter 

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ID: 201   Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Well. as leader of the SNP, her party won 56 of the 59 Westminster seats in 2015. At the Holyrood election the following year, in a system deliberately contrived to prevent any one party from coming close to having a majority, they won 48.8% of the seats. She has shown strong leadership since assuming the role of First Minister, and she continues to do so. I appreciate that many people do not like her for very petty, peurile reasons, but really - is this what the whole debate has come down to?

These threads lead me to suspect theres an element of 'Celtic v Rangers' involved too. Has any sectarian link been considered or is this just coincidence?

Edited by evadgib

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ID: 202   Posted (edited)

30 minutes ago, evadgib said:

These threads lead me to suspect theres an element of 'Celtic v Rangers' involved too. Has any sectarian link been considered or is this just coincidence?

Is there? I am not sure what gives you that impression, to be honest. The same issue was raised in a previous thread by an avowed unionist who got very upset when I made a gentle jibe about men in bowler hats and aprons, and who then got very confused when I revealed how, in my youth, I was an (unwilling) wee free attendee.

 

I read a thread on reddit.com/r/scotland last night about a lifelong Rangers fan who, when he revealed to his friends that he was a Yes supporter, was told that he should no longer buy an Ibrox season ticket or attend any games. Several other Rangers fans replied that they, too, had experienced similar reactions from other Rangers fans. As I don't follow football, I am not sure whether there is a similar but opposite sentiment amongst Celtic fans, but I hope that, regardless, these are merely annecdotal cases and do not point to something more endemic.

 

I don't want to spam the thread, but nobody has made a serious comment on what, I believe, is a far greater motivator for the desire for such fundamental change - the relentless drive of the Westminster government to hammer the working classes:

 

Scotland isn't different, it's Britain that's bizarre

 

"it's Britain that is the fourth most unequal developed country on earth, in which pay has in recent years fallen faster than in all but three EU countries, in which people work the third longest hours in Europe for the second lowest wages in the OECD despite having Europe's third highest housing costs, highest train fares and the second worst levels of fuel poverty. "

 

"Britain [...] has the least happy children in the developed world, the highest infant mortality rate in Western Europe and some of the worst child poverty in the industrialised world. It's British elderly people who are the fourth poorest pensioners in the EU. It's Britain which has the eighth biggest gender pay gap in Europe and child care costs much higher than most European countries."

Edited by RuamRudy
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ID: 203   Posted (edited)

Stats re SNP MPs might be available via FoI request. They might prove useful to journalists etc.

Edited by evadgib
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1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Are figure known re SNP MPs? 

 

It might be something a journo could make use of.

SNP MPs' religious affiliations? I have no idea - there was one MP a couple of weeks ago who caused a stir because she turned up to a committee on Ash Wednesday with a cross on her forehead. As for others, I am not sure.

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I feel a bit like St Paul now, having just viewed this video and been convinced by the brotherly and fraternal words of my fellow countryman, warmly encouraging me to stay and build something that we can be jointly proud of.

 

I will share this with all my Yes leaning friends who will, no doubt, drop their foolish separatist notions and immediately pledge allegiance to the Union flag. I will also share it with my No leaning friends, who, I am certain, will look at me with avuncular ken, and ask why it took so long for the scales to fall from my eyes.

Better Together

 

WARNING: the language of brotherly love used is quite salty.

  (P.S. I know that he is not representative of most English people, but I wonder is he a TV poster...)

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Sun readers? We're fed up with them too :)

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1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I feel a bit like St Paul now, having just viewed this video and been convinced by the brotherly and fraternal words of my fellow countryman, warmly encouraging me to stay and build something that we can be jointly proud of.

 

I will share this with all my Yes leaning friends who will, no doubt, drop their foolish separatist notions and immediately pledge allegiance to the Union flag. I will also share it with my No leaning friends, who, I am certain, will look at me with avuncular ken, and ask why it took so long for the scales to fall from my eyes.

Better Together

 

WARNING: the language of brotherly love used is quite salty.

  (P.S. I know that he is not representative of most English people, but I wonder is he a TV poster...)

Obviously well over the top. But what you should be asking yourselves, is why this man is so anti - Scottish? Up to about 20yrs ago,it was very rare to hear an English person speak badly about the Scots.Now that has completely changed.Who or what has destroyed this friendship. Could it be the rise of the SNP, and if so it would seem that the SNP has at least had some success.

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1 minute ago, nontabury said:

Obviously well over the top. But what you should be asking yourselves, is why this man is so anti - Scottish? Up to about 20yrs ago,it was very rare to hear an English person speak badly about the Scots.Now that has completely changed.Who or what has destroyed this friendship. Could it be the rise of the SNP, and if so it would seem that the SNP has at least had some success.

Your post reads like those awful stories of battered wives being asked to think about what it is they have done to upset their husbands so much.

Have you spent any time whatsoever trying to understand why almost half of the Scottish electorate wants to leave the UK?

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22 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Your post reads like those awful stories of battered wives being asked to think about what it is they have done to upset their husbands so much.

Have you spent any time whatsoever trying to understand why almost half of the Scottish electorate wants to leave the UK?

Have you considered why more than half want to stay... 

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If ...and  IF there is another referendum I hope lessons will be learned from the  the Brexit farce.

 

Clear exit plan and as rejoining the EU is Sturgeons election promise  (and I suspect she will renege on that by not accepting the terms offered), if Scotland fails to rejoin the EU within 5 years there should be another referendum giving the Scott's an option to rejoin the UK.

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