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Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

751 posts in this topic

ID: 77   Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

If she got all of the UK to vote rather than just Scotland she would definitely win. England and Wales can't wait to get rid of the winging Scots.

That's how a divorce should work but I believe we're better together.

 

What isn't negotiable is that UK voted to leave the EU and that they will be coming too.

Edited by evadgib

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There was a referendum 2 years ago and the Scots did not vote to leave UK. It was billed as a once and for all, which conventionally means once per generation.  Opinion polls don't even suggest a change, and indeed the majority of people don't want another referendum.  My conclusion is that it is an absurd request.

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19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 


The Scots have clearly demonstrated that they want to remain in the EU. Brexit appears to be inevitable so no amount of waiting to see just how much of a disaster the future of a united GB&NI outside the EU is, will make up for that. Surely it is better to take all the pain in one go?

 

 

The Scots voted to remain in the UK. That was the issue in the referendum. There were no provisos.

 

 

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The Scots voted to remain in the UK. That was the issue in the referendum. There were no provisos.
 
 

One of the threats /bribes /inducements of the Bitter Together campaign was that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK.

Many of us saw that you be as much nonsense as the other London lies, but sadly many fell for it, a bit like the government backed lie of EU money being diverted to the NHS - a despicably cynical attempt to pervert the democratic process.

A referendum won on a basket of lies is nothing more than a travesty of democracy.

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2 hours ago, kamahele said:

I don't have a horse in this race, but I had wished the UK could have negotiated changes to the EU agreement rather than opt out and I would like to see Scotland stay in the EU. That being said, a mention  that most Scots voted in favor of staying in the UK is misleading . A majority of the population of Scotland did vote to stay in the union but native born Scots voted heavily in favor of leaving. Other members of the UK residing in Scotland tipped the scales in favor of staying in the Union. 

Can you back this up?

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Just now, RuamRudy said:


One of the threats /bribes /inducements of the Bitter Together campaign was that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was to remain in the UK.

Many of us saw that you be as much nonsense as the other London lies, but sadly many fell for it, a bit like the government backed lie of EU money being diverted to the NHS - a despicably cynical attempt to pervert the democratic process.

A referendum won on a basket of lies is nothing more than a travesty of democracy.

 

Politics changes. Nobody ever thought Brexit was likely. Scotland voted to remain in the UK, end of...

 

Scotland entered in to the Brexit referendum freely, knowing that it was a UK wide vote and that it is binding.

 

The independence vote is just that.  It is not a vote to join the EU.  There is no logic in attaching the issue of EU membership to the independence cause, because if The Nationalists were to get their way Scotland would not be a member of EU anyway, even if the UK subsequently decided to remain.

 

 

 

 

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ID: 83   Posted (edited)

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

 

Following divorce, it's often a good move to stay close to family and friends particularly if they are of a similar mindset  🙂

Edited by Grouse
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1 minute ago, Grouse said:

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

You did say it was a weak metaphor!

 

The marital home isn't on fire, is it?  Although unfortunately the wife's finances are in a bit of a state as usual.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

To continue this rather weak metaphor:

 

The Scots voted in 2014 to stay wed to England following the shot gun wedding 300 years ago. Now, England has set fire to the marital home and refuses any discussion about putting the fire out.

 

Clearly this is a case of abuse and is certainly grounds for divorce.

 

I can assure contributors that weakened finances does not always prevent a divorce. 

 

It's all about happiness and contentment you see....

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

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14 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You did say it was a weak metaphor!

 

The marital home isn't on fire, is it?  Although unfortunately the wife's finances are in a bit of a state as usual.

 

 

Oh it's burning now alright and the numpties are asleep upstairs! Goodnight everybody!🙂

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ID: 87   Posted (edited)

31 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

You think shame lies with the Scots over Culloden? I think you should read up on Stinking Billy. 

 

There was was a terrific docudrama we were shown at school. I'll see if it's online...

 

This was actually a rebellion against Scotland being sold off to England. Watch this and get back to me about "shame"

 

more on stinking billy

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/cumber.htm

 

Edited by Grouse

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Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since


After Thatcher, Scottish history was taken off the school curriculum and replaced with 1066 and all that. The old yins were the main supporters of the union in 2014 so your inference doesn't make sense.

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36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You think shame lies with the Scots over Culloden? I think you should read up on Stinking Billy. 

 

There was was a terrific docudrama we were shown at school. I'll see if it's online...

 

This was actually a rebellion against Scotland being sold off to England. Watch this and get back to me about "shame"

 

more on stinking billy

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/cumber.htm

 

It actually was the Scottish Jacobite rebellion against England. but still guess some Scots are still trying to distort historical facts. The shame was some escaped.

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ID: 90   Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

It actually was the Scottish Jacobite rebellion against England. but still guess some Scots are still trying to distort historical facts. The shame was some escaped.

Do read up on it. Watch the documentary / drama. Then get back to me.....

 

I used to live at Culloden when I was first married. My first ever telephone number was Culloden Moor 500!

 

Some escaped? Like at the Warsaw uprising? What a moronic comment. You should be ashamed.

Edited by Grouse
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1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

There was a referendum 2 years ago and the Scots did not vote to leave UK. It was billed as a once and for all, which conventionally means once per generation.  Opinion polls don't even suggest a change, and indeed the majority of people don't want another referendum.  My conclusion is that it is an absurd request.

This should be left until the next general election, if the SNP can double the number of MP's they have at Westminster then let them have a referendum. :whistling:

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6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Do read up on it. Watch the documentary / drama. Then get back to me.....

 

I used to live at Culloden when I was first married. My first ever telephone number was Culloden Moor 500!

 

Some escaped? Like at the Warsaw uprising? What a moronic comment. You should be ashamed.

Watched it when it was first released, great drama with the correct outcome. And I guess when you lived there the excitment was all over, unless of course you were around in 1746 which would be a bit off a stretch to believe. Quite how you can equate the persecuted Jews in Poland with a rebellion by the Scots against England, well guess that it Scottish obtuse thinking. Have a nice day and calm yourself down.

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The whole situation mindset of Sturgeon is bizarre.

 

She wants to bring about massive constitutional change and essentially break up a country that is integrated economically, politically cultural and socially for 300+ years in order to be "independent" and stay in the EU which accounts for bugger all of Scotlands trade.. Scotland alone trades more with the RoW than it does with the EU bloc.

 

England is going to be outside the single market and customs union so there will have to be a border with Scotland.. what else could be done? 

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Just now, cheapskatesam said:

The whole situation mindset of Sturgeon is bizarre.

 

She wants to bring about massive constitutional change and essentially break up a country that is integrated economically, politically cultural and socially for 300+ years in order to be "independent" and stay in the EU which accounts for bugger all of Scotlands trade.. Scotland alone trades more with the RoW than it does with the EU bloc.

 

England is going to be outside the single market and customs union so there will have to be a border with Scotland.. what else could be done? 

 

Massive (and highly unpopular) constitutional change is being thrust upon Scotland at the behest of England - that is the driver for this.

 

But something else to ponder: if we are as politically, culturally and socially integrated as you suggest, why does almost half of Scotland want to go it alone? Things are not as rosy as you seem to think.

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1 hour ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Pity the Scots could never really shake of the shame of Culloden and have had chips on their shoulders ever since

I don't mind poking 'em with a cattle prod now and again but this and the potato famine are no go areas if we are to enjoy a bit o' banter while steering clear of flame wars.

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2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Massive (and highly unpopular) constitutional change is being thrust upon Scotland at the behest of England - that is the driver for this.

 

But something else to ponder: if we are as politically, culturally and socially integrated as you suggest, why does almost half of Scotland want to go it alone? Things are not as rosy as you seem to think.

 

Britain leaving the EU is change but not massive constitutional change. Scotland becoming a separate country is massive.. everything has got to be negotiated and new bodies need setting up.. Military, Embassies.. the list is endless.

 

The Scots don't give a toss about the EU.. it was a poor turn out and it was an "i'm alright jack" vote for remain. 

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Just now, evadgib said:

I don't mind poking 'em with a cattle prod now and again but this and the potato famine are no go areas if we are to enjoy a bit o' banter while steering clear of flame wars.

Excuse me but the potatoe famine was in Ireland around 100 years later. And if certain people attempt to distort the truth because of their inability to accept historical facts, then that is their problem.

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To wait would risk EU membership


No guarantee of EU acceptance...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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21 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

They should be legally obliged to wait because nobody knows what will happen as a result of Brexit and it may conceivably turn out to be to Scotland's advantage.

 

What if they vote now for independence, then Brexit proves highly beneficial to the UK? Then Scotland will want back in again. It's ridiculous. Just wait.

I think for Sturgeon Brexit is just the vehicle she is using to get a second referendum.  Obviously it would be better to see how Brexit is progressing but if it does look like a success then that would scupper Sturgeons chances of independence.  Much more a case of what's best for Sturgeon rather than what's best for Scotland.

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6 minutes ago, cheapskatesam said:

 

Britain leaving the EU is change but not massive constitutional change. Scotland becoming a separate country is massive.. everything has got to be negotiated and new bodies need setting up.. Military, Embassies.. the list is endless.

 

The Scots don't give a toss about the EU.. it was a poor turn out and it was an "i'm alright jack" vote for remain. 

 

It seems to me that Scotland voted against independence.  And those that do proclaim independence dont really want this: they want to be dependent on EU, as opposed to UK. That's the truth of the matter.

 

But EU know the score, and have already told Scots Nats straight that they will not become part of EU.  And furthermore Scotland will need to go it alone for a number of years and present themselves with a neat set of books before being considered for acceptance.  Spain has already stated that it would block Scotland, but as usual Scots Nats don't accept a no means no.

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