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Arjen

Fresh cowmilk

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21 hours ago, Wang Lalker said:

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milk is spelt meiji in thai

cant see a need to go past one of the best on the planet

Meiji is a Japanese company who with CP produce the milk.Thai company law says a foreign company must have a Thai partner 51%foreign  49% Thai.

Milk in Thai is Nom นม,it says Nom pasteurized on the bottle or  pasteurized milk 

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I heard some folks doing rennet cheese with pasteurized milk and get something "edible" out of it, but they do not get the right consistence, since there will be no more bacillus (bacteria) alive..  I tried myself doing cheese with whole milk (it has more fat only) and rennet, and the final product is a very low quality cheese, you can not even call it cheese. It has to be raw milk.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Wang Lalker said:

cant you mix some whole milk into the pasturised milk to add the live bacillus
just guessing

That is something I had never tried before. Could work.

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There are cultures available for when you use not fresh milk. Difficult to taste the difference. But processed milk is also more expansive then raw milk.

 

Arjen.

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Not easy to make cheese here in Thailand, mainly due to the dairy cows diet and the breed.

Most dairy cows in are kept sheds/yards the whole time they, maine roughage  is rice straw, a feed low in everything, no protein, energy or minerals, this will give the milk a low butterfat percent, as you know it is the butterfat you need to make cheese, a few cows that get fresh  young  grass that will drop the butterfat, young grass high in protein low in fat and fiber .

When I use to milk cows in the uk we had a minimum I think it was 4.3% BF, which we kept to without any problem .then the health fad's come along .milk fat causes heart attacks, etc, etc,so the breeders breed cows with a lower BF, now the minimin  BF is 3.5%.but here in Thailand have seen farmers milk quality tickets with BF % of 2.5-3.0%,  and a low milk protein, making it not easy to make cheese. 

The breed here is mainly   Frisians, a lot are Holstines, they produce a lot of milk but as a rule lower quality, colored water as some call it.

This problem is known here in LOS , farmers are at last getting paid some of there milk income on milk quality, some farmers are using breeds, that can be crossed with they own cows which will push up milk quality,so if and when it happens it will easier to make cheese.

Tv's Crossey was saying that Meiji/CP is the only realistic milk in Thailand, and on the general forum it has come up about the quality of milk in Thailand, a lot still think all milk in Thailand is powdered, the above is the Maine reason.

About 20 years the Thai -Denmark milk company got a Danish guy in to make some cheese, being Danish he tried the softer Gouay type cheese never took off,I think he struggled to get the consistency and flavor right, and probably not sweet enough for the Thai pallet.

Last year I was at one of our milk centers, a Thai guy said to me he wants to make a cheddar type cheese, but could not find a culture here in Thailand .

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On 13/04/2018 at 5:33 PM, b4n9 said:

 

Another option is buy a cow!!! But in this case I have to learn how to take proper care of the animal, but in this heat I have no idea if it will survive longer.. 

 

 

Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from these westerners in Luang Prabang, Laos. They are using buffalo (more fat in the milk and adapted to tropical conditions) and they don't buy/own them. They borrow them! They had no background in farming when they started. They taught themselves using the internet, etc. 

 

http://www.laosbuffalodairy.com 

 

Actually, there are 2 main kinds of domesticated buffalo in the world. One is the kind you find around here that were traditionally used for pulling ploughs and carts (and are used by the above dairy) and then eventually made into meatballs when they're past their expiry date. Then the other kind is the dairy buffalo that gives more milk and is very common in South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc). I think the Laos Buffalo Dairy is now planning to introduce some genetics from the dairy buffalo into their local gene pool. 

 

Edited by JungleBiker
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Hi JB

        They certainly have a good set up in Lao and some good brains in the team.

A look at the net and buffalo milk has a butterfat of 7% could be more if they are on a good diet, that is on par with the best Jersey milk, a lot better than the 3% of the Friesian cow 

But buffolws  are normal kept ,now as investment ,low imput  just ticking over ,liveing on a heage bottom diet and low quality rice straw .

The calf will be the problem  I would say nearly all buffalos rear they own calf, with the low-quality diet the calf would use most of the milk, have heard of systems where the calf is kept away from the dam, and only spends only a small time with its mother.normaly after miking .

 Would be nice to have some mozzarella cheese, grated on top of some spaghetti

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Hi KS, 

 

I know that during the lactation period when the Laos Buffalo Dairy borrows the mother buffalo from its owner, they feed it well in order to get more milk so that there is enough for the calf and the dairy. 

 

I reckon there is an opportunity for someone (perhaps a TV member?) to do something similar in Thailand.  

 

BTW,  you mentioned mozzeralla and there are many buffalo dairies in Italy but there are even buffalo dairies in the UK. For example:

 

https://www.laverstokepark.co.uk/produce/dairy/

http://www.buffalodairy.co.uk

 

And some UK buffalo farms are focused on the meat...

 

e.g. http://www.broughtonwaterbuffalo.co.uk/farm/ 

 

I reckon it makes more sense to raise an animal that is adapted to the tropics (the heat, the food, pests/diseases, etc) than to farm a temperate breed in a tropical country. Mind you, I know of one big (cow) dairy farm in Thailand that is located at altitude (in Loei, higher than Pakchong/Saraburi) and is getting very good milk yields. 

 

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On 4/16/2018 at 1:07 AM, JungleBiker said:

Perhaps you could learn a thing or two from these westerners in Luang Prabang, Laos. They are using buffalo (more fat in the milk and adapted to tropical conditions) and they don't buy/own them. They borrow them! They had no background in farming when they started. They taught themselves using the internet, etc. 

 

http://www.laosbuffalodairy.com 

 

Actually, there are 2 main kinds of domesticated buffalo in the world. One is the kind you find around here that were traditionally used for pulling ploughs and carts (and are used by the above dairy) and then eventually made into meatballs when they're past their expiry date. Then the other kind is the dairy buffalo that gives more milk and is very common in South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc). I think the Laos Buffalo Dairy is now planning to introduce some genetics from the dairy buffalo into their local gene pool.

Wow, that's a nice one! Thanks for sharing that.

I am not so sure if the farmers around our farm are milking their animals, probably not, I'm going to ask them.

It sounds to be a very good option for me and probably cheaper! Buffalo mozzarella is very taste and a little sour than Cow mozzarella.

 

 

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On 4/14/2018 at 2:37 AM, Arjen said:

There are cultures available for when you use not fresh milk. Difficult to taste the difference. But processed milk is also more expansive then raw milk.

 

Arjen.

Processed milk cost about 3x more than raw milk or maybe more.. but of course the raw milk must be of good quality, high fat rate better, but anything above 3% is possible to make cheese.

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On 4/14/2018 at 11:22 AM, kickstart said:

Not easy to make cheese here in Thailand, mainly due to the dairy cows diet and the breed.

Most dairy cows in are kept sheds/yards the whole time they, maine roughage  is rice straw, a feed low in everything, no protein, energy or minerals, this will give the milk a low butterfat percent, as you know it is the butterfat you need to make cheese, a few cows that get fresh  young  grass that will drop the butterfat, young grass high in protein low in fat and fiber .

When I use to milk cows in the uk we had a minimum I think it was 4.3% BF, which we kept to without any problem .then the health fad's come along .milk fat causes heart attacks, etc, etc,so the breeders breed cows with a lower BF, now the minimin  BF is 3.5%.but here in Thailand have seen farmers milk quality tickets with BF % of 2.5-3.0%,  and a low milk protein, making it not easy to make cheese. 

The breed here is mainly   Frisians, a lot are Holstines, they produce a lot of milk but as a rule lower quality, colored water as some call it.

This problem is known here in LOS , farmers are at last getting paid some of there milk income on milk quality, some farmers are using breeds, that can be crossed with they own cows which will push up milk quality,so if and when it happens it will easier to make cheese.

Tv's Crossey was saying that Meiji/CP is the only realistic milk in Thailand, and on the general forum it has come up about the quality of milk in Thailand, a lot still think all milk in Thailand is powdered, the above is the Maine reason.

About 20 years the Thai -Denmark milk company got a Danish guy in to make some cheese, being Danish he tried the softer Gouay type cheese never took off,I think he struggled to get the consistency and flavor right, and probably not sweet enough for the Thai pallet.

Last year I was at one of our milk centers, a Thai guy said to me he wants to make a cheddar type cheese, but could not find a culture here in Thailand .

As I'm not into dairy farm stuffs I do not know much about keeping animals, breeds and diets, etc .. But of course it is all important to get a good final product - cheese!

 

Well, if fat is the problem here, this Thai guy will have a huge challenge ahead! Cheddar is the fat one!

 

I think that explains why people here are doing Tofu instead of Cheese!

 

Thanks for the information.

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I think that explains why people here are doing Tofu instead of Cheese!


i was under the impression it was something called lactose intolerance in the east asian populous

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On 17/4/2561 at 9:38 AM, JungleBiker said:

Hi KS, 

 

I know that during the lactation period when the Laos Buffalo Dairy borrows the mother buffalo from its owner, they feed it well in order to get more milk so that there is enough for the calf and the dairy. 

 

I reckon there is an opportunity for someone (perhaps a TV member?) to do something similar in Thailand.  

 

BTW,  you mentioned mozzeralla and there are many buffalo dairies in Italy but there are even buffalo dairies in the UK. For example:

 

https://www.laverstokepark.co.uk/produce/dairy/

http://www.buffalodairy.co.uk

 

And some UK buffalo farms are focused on the meat...

 

e.g. http://www.broughtonwaterbuffalo.co.uk/farm/ 

 

I reckon it makes more sense to raise an animal that is adapted to the tropics (the heat, the food, pests/diseases, etc) than to farm a temperate breed in a tropical country. Mind you, I know of one big (cow) dairy farm in Thailand that is located at altitude (in Loei, higher than Pakchong/Saraburi) and is getting very good milk yields. 

 

We have the Passack  dam on our doorstep, and we have had 2 herds of "Kwie-Nock, European buffaloes, one herd was imported from I think Italy, the owner had all the paperwork, he said it was all in a foreign language, and could not read any of it .

The wife said they spent most of the time in water holes, when she goes past to go fishing, I see  them now and then they looked thin, I  the owner, an ex  Sor-Jor,a local provincial politician, must have thought you could keep them like Thai swomp buffalos ,just walking around grazing rough grass ,and fed rice straw in the dry season , the other herd ,not seen in a long time ,but the wife says they are in better condition ,were thay come from I do not know. 

I would say with some good fed and management they could do well .I would say as they spend a lot of time in water holes, they could suffer a bit from heat stress.

A cross breed, like dairy cattle, would be the best option, 75%  European 25% native breed, again with good management,and feeding it should work out .

Guy near  makes goat milk cheese, nice it is to ,his main markets are farangs, Bangkok, Chiang Mie,and Pattaya,he dose ok ,could be the same making some  mozzarella cheese ,would be easier I think ,than trying make cheese from cows milk ,with the price of mozzarella  cheese in the Paragon shopping center in Bangkok,and probably other department stores in Thailand, could be a nice bit of neish  marketing. 

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On 17/4/2561 at 9:38 AM, JungleBiker said:

Hi KS, 

 

I know that during the lactation period when the Laos Buffalo Dairy borrows the mother buffalo from its owner, they feed it well in order to get more milk so that there is enough for the calf and the dairy. 

 

I reckon there is an opportunity for someone (perhaps a TV member?) to do something similar in Thailand.  

 

BTW,  you mentioned mozzeralla and there are many buffalo dairies in Italy but there are even buffalo dairies in the UK. For example:

 

https://www.laverstokepark.co.uk/produce/dairy/

http://www.buffalodairy.co.uk

 

And some UK buffalo farms are focused on the meat...

 

e.g. http://www.broughtonwaterbuffalo.co.uk/farm/ 

 

I reckon it makes more sense to raise an animal that is adapted to the tropics (the heat, the food, pests/diseases, etc) than to farm a temperate breed in a tropical country. Mind you, I know of one big (cow) dairy farm in Thailand that is located at altitude (in Loei, higher than Pakchong/Saraburi) and is getting very good milk yields. 

 

We have the Passack  dam on our doorstep, and we have had 2 herds of "Kwie-Nok, European buffaloes, one herd was imported from I think Italy, the owner had all the paperwork, he said it was all in a foreign language, and could not read any of it .

The wife said they spent most of the time in water holes, when she goes past to go fishing, I see  them now and then they looked thin, I  the owner, an ex  Sor-Jor,a local provincial politician, must have thought you could keep them like Thai swomp buffalos ,just walking around grazing rough grass ,and fed rice straw in the dry season , the other herd ,not seen in a long time ,but the wife says they are in better condition .

I would say with some good fed and management they could do well .I would say as they spend a lot of time in water holes, they could suffer a bit from heat stress.

A cross breed, like dairy cattle, would be the best option, 75%  European 25% native breed, again with good management should work out .

Guy near  makes goat milk cheese, nice it is to ,his main markets are farangs, Bangkok, Chiang Mie,and Pattary ,he dose ok ,could be the same making some  mozzarella cheese ,would be easyer I think ,than trying make chesse from cows milk ,with the price of monzzarella  chesse in the Paragon shopping center in Bangkok,and probaly other department stores in Thailand, could be a nice bit of neish  marketing 

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BANGKOK 21 April 2018 18:21
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