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Hawaii judge halts Trump's new travel ban before it can go into effect

141 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, Linzz said:

Indeed it is a bit like all the Hollywood celebrities behind their mansion walls and gated communities. Plenty of outrage but will they open their doors?

No but they will open yours.

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Tourism to hawaii from islamic countries is probably tiny and insignificant. based on living there over a decade. strange how they cite tourism. huge tourism is from mainland usa, japan, but not islamic countries.

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Some off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stay on topic.  

 

The number of immigrants and refugees is limited.   The number allowed to enter the US is set by congress each year.   The President can move the numbers in the refugee category around, but the number is set.  

 

Refugees are spread out among the states and they are not 'sent' to any one place.   States, through a variety of agencies and NGO's, provide services, jobs and housing for the refugees.   Immigrants usually settle with family members, with the exception of those filling jobs in the US.  

 

When the President limits the people from one country, the numbers admitted are filled by people awaiting visas from other countries and categories.  

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POTUS is becoming redundant. May as well hand all the decision making to the lefty judges. Of course unlike the president, they won't bear any of the responsibility when things go wrong.

The lunatics seem to be running the asylum in the US. Dunno why they bothered with the vote. Bit like what GM and the Lords are doing in the UK.

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3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Once power is given that the federal government can make any and all laws, overriding the states. Thats no longer the United "States" of America, thats the "Federal Republic of America". In a union of states, the states empower a federal government to govern on their behalf, but in doing so, reserve the right via separation of powers etc, to remain autonomous. If not, the state borders may as well be taken away tomorrow. Its "for the people by the people" not "for the people by the executive powers of the federal government". 

Yes, the states give executive power in matters of national security, but if the federal Government starts making up or exaggerating a national security threat, anything can be included, immigration, border taxes, civil liberties etc. 

They could shut down the hospitals tomorrow, its a matter of national security, a future terrorist may be born in one of them. 

Your straw man argument that once the Federal government can make any and all laws is not the point I was (or anyone else was) trying to make. The president of the United States (Executive Branch) is specifically given control over who and how many emigrate to the USA. Look up the statute, it is pretty cut and dried (easy enough for a liberal arts major to understand).

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3 hours ago, Linzz said:

Extreme vetting should be enough and avoids all these legal wrangles. 

You mean like the extreme vetting that is already in place? 2 years to process a person! Have you looked at the procedure? It is extreme vetting already, why change a system that was not broken, it may have needed some improvements that is all.

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4 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

You mean like Trump did in the Yemen? When he ordered an operation as Commander in Chief and when it went wrong and someone was killed he said it was the Generals fault! Trump has never taken responsibility for his actions in his entire life.

Using your logic any military operation with casualties is a failure? WWII using your logic was a complete failure and we should have let Germany take over Europe and left Asia to the Japanese so we would not take any casualties. People die during war (news flash) hopefully more of the other guys than our own. US Navy Seals are professional warriors, every one of them is a volunteer, and they know the risks of going into combat. 

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Just a thought, but maybe the POTUS could stop trying to govern using executive orders and put some bills/legislation through congress.

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

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10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Apparently not as well established as you think. Otherwise, why wouldn't the administration have appealed Trump's original executive order all the way to the Supreme Court?

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15 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Yes, but there is that pesky little Constitution that gets in the way of all kinds of things that The Donald wants to do.   

 

It is a commentary on his lack of skills that he cannot even write an Executive Order or implement a policy in the area of which he has brought discretionary powers.   

 

On this one, he gets a fail.   

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14 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Yes I agree, but in this instance the executive branch is introducing parameters not in the original legislation, a travel ban dependent on country of origin. Thats the judiciaries job, to interpret and enforce the existing legislation.

Legislation is usually long winded and written to cover lots of senarios, future developments etc, but if its not in the legislation, an executive order cant add it.

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3 hours ago, Grubster said:

I think Trump should begin to build some very large housing projects in Hawaii, then send all these immigrants there, problem solved.

 

3 hours ago, Linzz said:

Indeed it is a bit like all the Hollywood celebrities behind their mansion walls and gated communities. Plenty of outrage but will they open their doors?

 

3 hours ago, Grubster said:

No but they will open yours.

It is called the NIMBY effect, go ahead and do it just Not In My Back Yard. I guess just like the two of you want to do with the rest of the world. Let Europe and Australia etc etc pick up all the mess from the US invasion of foreign sovereign territories but don't let them come to the USA. Nice people over there.

 

I think this photo sums it up your attitudes quite nicely. Go, do whatever you want and then leave someone else to clean your crap up.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-16 at 3.17.08 PM.png

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

A complete BS post and reply. The mission went wrong, that is a fact stated by the military commanders involved. Did I use the word failure? Nope you did. In your post you use the word 'logic' yet seem bereft of the ability to use it. The FACT is the Commander in Chief forgot the old saying "The buck stops here", instead after giving the order to conduct the operation, he blamed the Generals. THAT is a disgrace, and THAT is something unacceptable to the service men and women that serve their country. Trump expects people to give their lives, but he can't even accept responsibility from the warmth and comfort of his office. Try reading my post and applying a little comprehension, rational and 'logic' instead of shooting back from the hip with a ridiculous reply with ridiculous analogies.

He also blamed Obama.

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47 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Apparently not as well established as you think. Otherwise, why wouldn't the administration have appealed Trump's original executive order all the way to the Supreme Court?

Because the Supreme Court is currently one judge short and if tied the lower court ruling would stand. The lower court 9th circuit) is however overturned on appeal about 85% of the time (even the most liberal Supreme Court justices frequently rule against those idiots). 

 

Also so they may have lost on more narrow issues of immigration law regarding current Visa holders from those countries.

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32 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

A complete BS post and reply. The mission went wrong, that is a fact stated by the military commanders involved. Did I use the word failure? Nope you did. In your post you use the word 'logic' yet seem bereft of the ability to use it. The FACT is the Commander in Chief forgot the old saying "The buck stops here", instead after giving the order to conduct the operation, he blamed the Generals. THAT is a disgrace, and THAT is something unacceptable to the service men and women that serve their country. Trump expects people to give their lives, but he can't even accept responsibility from the warmth and comfort of his office. Try reading my post and applying a little comprehension, rational and 'logic' instead of shooting back from the hip with a ridiculous reply with ridiculous analogies.

Something going wrong could also imply failure, my point was that a single KIA incurred during the storming of a terrorist enclave is something that may occur during those types of military operations. Casualties are part of military operations and that was my point.

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Trump is clearly violating the U.S constitution but it is not something to be wondering about because George W Bush said the constitution is just a Goddamn piece of paper

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There are millions of US citizens living below the poverty level, if we can't take care of them then why should we bring others to the mix?

And this is connected to security how?

sent using Tapatalk

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BANGKOK 25 May 2017 15:54
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