Frank12

Being denied entry with marriage visa

79 posts in this topic

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Unless you have the equivalent of millions of dollars in the bank- you are way too young to retire in Thailand. At that age, without an occupation that would keep you busy, you would be bored to death, especially living in a small rural community. Right now, it may sound good but as you age the 'wonder' of Thailand will not be there and when you are able to speak and understand Thai well- you will find out that life in Thailand is not what you think it is.

If it was me now at that age- I would get Immigrant Visas for my wife and step son and relocate to your home country or elsewhere in Europe and become gainfully employed. In addition, that gives your wife and child the right to remain in Europe in the event of your demise.

You are now approaching your best earning years- and you will be surprised how quick your funds start to go down when you do not have income coming in.

Thailand will always be here and you can always return at some later date.

The bolded part made me curious. Care to elaborate further?? The statement made me curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, mvdf said:

I'm struggling to understand why you and others on this forum WONDER why IOs behave in a manner you deem inappropriate! 

 

I am Asian and when I travel to Schengen countries, the U.S., Australia etc I am occasionally interrogated, my travel history scrutinised, itinerary analysed...

 

Why is it that you think or expect westerners to be treated preferentially, kowtowed even, just because you come from first world countries? Immigration authorities in this region are entitled to interrogate, analyse, admit or expel, scrutinise all arriving human beings at ports of entry in the same exact manner we Asians are treated when we arrive at your airports!

 

Sir I think you misinterpret it. You ridicule yourself by thinking about what IOs does or does not as getting even by Asians vs unfair treatment from Westerners. Firstly I am from 2nd class EU country and I am still required to get visa to many countries too. As a former lawyer I want to tell you that the problem isn't what they can or can't but that there isn't any logic in the action of IO. The share existence of Thai Visa forum proves the point. In a country were law doesn't work or there is no law basically the will of a person in power is the law. Hence thousands of foreginers following Thai Visa to stay informed about the policy shift within Thai Immigration. You might like or not like what most of here does it but you have to admit that I didn't broke the law/immgiration laws while being here and the sudden policy shift caught me off guard. As there isn't any change in the law the sole purpose of my Thread was to share and gather data whether there is a policy shift (hence I should start gathering documents so I could leave Thailand ) and avoid leaving/investing any money here or I was just unlucky and faced immigration officer that hate farangs/had  a bad day/just didn't like the way I look??  It isn't like immigration ever bother to inform us about any changes we learn about it from experience ans sharing it here so we could be better informed while making decisions.

Suddenly there is a huge offtop in this thread that makes no sense tbh whether it is or isn't ok for me to stay or what the appropriate action of immigration is/should be . I am not ranting or complaining here I just want to be better informed so to be prepared for whatever is going to happen.  So please,please lets stop off top and lets focus on the facts.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly speaking, No one is asking for special treatment because we come from Western countries. As an American, one of my worst experiences ever was when re-entering the US from Thailand and being interrogated for 45 minutes as why I travel to Thailand often; who were the people pictured in my family album; what I had on my mobile phone and why I  carry 2 Passports (one of  which was expired). Some people even had their hard drives examined on their computers. In fact the IO supervisor had to inform the IO to let me pass as it was obvious I had nothing of any interest in my Passport or suitcases.

 

As the poster mentioned, Thailand has a reputation of different offices asking for different sets of documentation; and for certain points of entry stopping people and interrogating them and refusing entry for valid tourists and in this case a person with a valid Non Immigrant O Visa who was married to a Thai citizen. In all of my years of entering Thailand and that is many decades, I have never heard of a person with a valid Non O Visa married to a Thai being interrogated in such a manner. 

 

Since Thailand appears to want tourist business and advertises that it is open for business and extolls its warmth - I  don't believe the OP was asking for any special treatment- he was asking for the IO to honor the Visa he had. How about Io's in all countries treating people entering with respect and dignity and not with constant suspicion and derision. As a returning American citizen, I was appalled at the way I was treatd by the US IOs in Los Angeles . I can only imagine what they do to non citizens.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, mvdf said:

I'm struggling to understand why you and others on this forum WONDER why IOs behave in a manner you deem inappropriate! 

 

I am Asian and when I travel to Schengen countries, the U.S., Australia etc I am occasionally interrogated, my travel history scrutinised, itinerary analysed...

 

Why is it that you think or expect westerners to be treated preferentially, kowtowed even, just because you come from first world countries? Immigration authorities in this region are entitled to interrogate, analyse, admit or expel, scrutinise all arriving human beings at ports of entry in the same exact manner we Asians are treated when we arrive at your airports!

 

I am sorry to hear if you have faced abusive behavior in Western nations.  But asking questions is not the same as insulting, accusations of lying, etc.  As I stated elsewhere, I have been questioned - extensively - at a Thai border-checkpoint - but in a Civil and Polite manner.  I have no issue with this.  Being "kowtowed" to, is not the same as Polite and Civil.  I don't demand or expect for anyone kiss my backside.  I do, however, expect a degree of mutual respect between human beings in civilized countries. 


Another factor immigration must consider, is whether the applicant coming from a nation with a lower pay-scale, so might be traveling to obtain illegal-employment.  That is the reason for most questioning of foreigners entering Western nations.  Most Illegal Aliens in the USA (official count) came legally, overstayed their visas, and took jobs working illegally.  Once in the country, they can also make asylum claims, etc - because they get "rights" just for having gotten in.  Such rights do not exist for foreigners in Thailand, so no such incentive exists.

 

As well, the pay scales here are nothing a Westerner would immigrate to receive.  We all know who 99% of those coming to Thailand to work illegally are from - neighboring nations with low pay-scales - yet they have the easy-visa / border-pass options, virtually no overstay-enforcement, etc.  This is a sick joke.

 

I have found "sour" to be the common-standard for most Thai immigration personnel - with some notable friendly exceptions, and the "civil" treatment mentioned above. "Sour" is not the attitude desired in personnel who deal with the general public.  Such persons belong in back-offices, if employed by govt at all.

 

BTW, I would never travel to Australia or the UK, due to how they treat visitors at their airports.  Nor do I intend to return to the USA (my passport-country), for this and other reasons.  It is outright disgusting what US airport-security put people through - including US-citizens and their children - when we all know exactly who the only potential-threats to an airplane or the country really are. 

 

Show your dissatisfaction with your feet and your money - it's all you can do, really.  That's why I don't use Thai airports any more.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dentonian said:

The term Marriage Visa confuses many because there is actually no such Visa.

 

As the OP stated it was obtained from Lao, then he certainly has a Non Imm O Multi entry Visa based on marriage to a Thai.

Local Immigration offices only issue extensions of stay based on marriage, not Visas.

 

Your assumption that he therefore has to make 90 day border runs is correct and as already mentioned he is being hassled because Immigration cannot figure how he is supporting himself without working at such a young age.

The thing is being married to a Thai allows you the right to work.

If you have a work permit.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 34   Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Frank12 said:

If they harras me for being on marriage visa why wouldn't they do it when having Thai Elite visa?

You haven't been in Thailand long, and clearly don't understand the visa/immigration system. And reading the emotional self interested claptrap from certain members isn't going to help you.

 

You don't have a marriage visa, you have a non-immigrant visa that you qualified for because you are married.

 

You clearly live in Thailand and should have entered with an appropriate visa and applied for an extension of stay for any reason you qualify for.

 

You seem to have a multiple entry non-immigrant visa, which is meant/designed for those living outside Thailand that want to make multiple short visits. Most people using this visa to live in Thailand do so because they can't meet the financial requirements for an extension of stay. Immigration know that and so the suspicion that you a working or can't really afford to live in the country is increased. That and your age will set off the alarm bells.

 

If you want your immigration problems to go away you need to put 400K in the bank and apply for a 1 year extension of stay. You can still exit/re-enter during that year using single or multiple entry re-entry permits. All the time you can meet the requirements you can easily renew each year without leaving the country.

 

When I read foreigners complaining it's, in almost all cases, because they are trying to stay in the country by circumventing the system. Due to visitor numbers growing exponentially over the past 20 years immigration are no longer as accommodating as they once were, and IMO will continue to be less tolerant of those using the 'legal loopholes' in the system to live in the country.

Edited by elviajero
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall one person at a consulate mumble something along the lines of: ... right visa ...

 

I also recall a publication from the government a couple years ago indicating they don't mind people staying here long time so long as they do it under the 'right visa'.

 

I think the move is continuing down the path of obtaining the right visa for the purpose of your stay.

 

If you are staying 2 years in a village of 600 people I think its fair to say you are not a tourist.... how long does it take to check out the sights in that village? :P

 

I'm not sure if others are hearing the words '.. right visa...'.  And I do think Thailand does offer enough visa choices for the right purpose for long stay people *aside* from those under 50 who are not working and just want to chelax here for a long period of time and can't afford a Thailand Elite.... but no system is perfect, nor does everyone need to be accommodated. 

 

But, yeah, seriously, TE Visa... 20 years... 1M THB...  Slip them the cash and enjoy not being hassled for 20 years.  Might be cheaper than unexpected flights half way around the planet :(

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 37   Posted (edited)

"I couldn't produce photos with my wife but it was because I had a new phone because my Chinesse Xiaomi Phone died"

 

Just like some people understand too late that a dashcam is necessary, some people will understand in 2050 that cloud as dropbox is also necessary.

 

To help you for the future, if it even happens to you that you have more than 20000 in a bank, try to be a bit smarter and keep in your cloud some documents showing from where come the money. I own a 10mb house and drive 10mb car, but i am always ready to show with my phone the fund transfer document from abroad stamped by the bank.

 

Poor you all to always understand things when it's too late.

 

 

Edited by abab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The OP had a valid Non O Visa because of marriage to a Thai. Since when is it required to now carry pictures of your spouse to show immigration; also 20K Baht; plus other documentation say the marriage certificate;  KOr Sor 2 updated; your spouse's tambien ban. The fact is that the IO at Don Muang took a dislike to this man and had no real reason to deny entry as the man had the proper visa for his  status- a foreigner married to a Thai. If a similar foreigner with a passport full of entries then got a Non O so he could apply for a marriage visa would he also get denied entry?  One normally needs a Non O to get a valid extension although conversion is possible.

In this particular case, I am siding completely with the OP. He was given short shrift by the IO.  

How does the IO know the visa holder is married. All they see is someone living in Thailand for 3 years using visas rather than an appropriate extension of stay.

 

If the OP was entering with a single entry non-immigrant visa I would have sympathy, however, if making a second entry with a multi entry visa it is understanble and right that the IO is suspicious that the person can't meet the financial requirements to live in the country and/or is probably working.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is something wrong with this 

You say Don Muang wanted to see photos - there would be obsolutely no reason for them wanting to see photos ( that is for when applying for extension of stay in Thailand (if im correct) 

Then you say you have a marriage Visa ( some people say theres no such thing so maybe its a visa from Lao for visiting wife ) but must have gained entry since your telling this 2 mths later & are planning to go visit family

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 40   Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

I think there is something wrong with this 

You say Don Muang wanted to see photos - there would be obsolutely no reason for them wanting to see photos ( that is for when applying for extension of stay in Thailand (if im correct) 

Then you say you have a marriage Visa ( some people say theres no such thing so maybe its a visa from Lao for visiting wife ) but must have gained entry since your telling this 2 mths later & are planning to go visit family

 

 

Yes you are right and untill your post I didn't realize that I made it unclear. So yeah I was finally let in . The title of the thread was reffering to my visit back to my home country next month and me coming back whether there is a chance I am going to be denied entry? Anyway people are right and in fact I caused the harm to myself by being totally careless with the law etc. (like Thai people being caught when the Police finally stops them for driving without helmet)I would appreciate for the mod to either change the title or even close it because I unconsciously might spread wrong information because yeah I was let in .Anyway  I didn't realize that it is true I am on a wrong visa and having non immigrant doesn't allow me to stay long term and I should get the extension. I mean worst case scenario I will buy the Thai Elite visa because people write about it as a valid option. So yeah will just stay abroad at least 6 months/year from now on and get the marriage extension ASAP.

 

Thanks for all the info/Thread closed.

Edited by Frank12
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iam glad the OP was let in- that restores my faith in the system.  If a person is married to a Thai- I have never heard of an individual with a Non Being refused entry.  To get the Non O- the Embassy/Consulate normally requires a marriage certificate signed by spouse as well as copy of ID/Tambien Ban. Absolutely no reason to even question the  OP nor to ever refuse entry.  Now if the Op approached with any other type visa- I would not argue their interrogation was correct. In this case- sorry- over the top and novalid reason for the interogation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Iam glad the OP was let in- that restores my faith in the system.  If a person is married to a Thai- I have never heard of an individual with a Non Being refused entry.  To get the Non O- the Embassy/Consulate normally requires a marriage certificate signed by spouse as well as copy of ID/Tambien Ban. Absolutely no reason to even question the  OP nor to ever refuse entry.  Now if the Op approached with any other type visa- I would not argue their interrogation was correct. In this case- sorry- over the top and novalid reason for the interogation.

 

Yeah I apologize for everyone If I mislead them with my thread title/first post (I am not a native speaker). Yes I was threaten by the officer and they didn't wanted to let me in but the superior officer took the passport and after calling my wife and collecting the info  (was also advised to take copy of my marriage certificate and photos with my wife) I was finally let in. I am sorry if I didn't make it clear in a first post. I wasn't aware about it. So basically I was just worried if after last time there is really a possibility of not being let in at airport rather than speaking from experience as of now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No reason to apologize- as a non native speaker of English you do quite well. I am glad it worked out for you.  When you do return make sure you have a Non O and carry proof of marriage- although I would doubt you will need it.  I have traveled on a Non O in and out of Thailand for 50 years and never asked for proof or even heard of anyone being asked until this post.  Good luck to you.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BEVUP said:

I think there is something wrong with this 

You say Don Muang wanted to see photos - there would be obsolutely no reason for them wanting to see photos ( that is for when applying for extension of stay in Thailand (if im correct)

Yes, them asking for any proof was out of line.  The OP had a marriage visa.  Stamp stamp - thank you - is all that should have happened.  Old visas were irrelevant.  Only a national-security concern should override this. 

 

2 hours ago, Frank12 said:

I didn't realize that it is true I am on a wrong visa

You are NOT on the "wrong visa" and did nothing wrong.  Some believe you might not get hassled with a 1-year extension of stay vs your multiple-entry visa - though both are based on being married to a Thai - so it should Make No Difference. 

 

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

How does the IO know the visa holder is married

It appears he had a Non-O Visa based on Marriage.  That is all they should need to see.  Showing "proof" was done to get the visa.  If Immigration has a problem with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (who issue visas at consulates), they can take it up with them - not hassle people who did Absolutely Nothing Wrong At ALL!!

 

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

You seem to have a multiple entry non-immigrant visa, which is meant/designed for those living outside Thailand that want to make multiple short visits.

No where does is it written - that I have seen - that a Multiple-Entry Non-O based on marriage visa is for "short visits only."  If documentation of such exists, someone please reference it.  The same for anyone who can show a limit on how long per-year a person can visit on Tourist Visas.  Where is it written - English or Thai?

 

If the OP had a Non-O Multiple Entry Visa - that is the "correct visa," and what happened only shows that foreigners are being treated in an unprofessional manner at airports, even when they have valid visas, and are following Thai law.  This unprofessional mis-behavior - disregarding Thai Laws and regulations and using "gotcha" technicalities to harass people obeying the law - appears to apply to any foreigner, at any time, for any reason they choose to make up on the spot.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 45   Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

No where does is it written - that I have seen - that a Multiple-Entry Non-O based on marriage visa is for "short visits only."  If documentation of such exists, someone please reference it.  '

I had my problems this week getting into the country with a long list of TR visas and two of the IOS told me separately that "you should get a visa that allows you to live here, like get married or start a business and then get a visa for either of those". 

Edited by stoicccc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, them asking for any proof was out of line.  The OP had a marriage visa.  Stamp stamp - thank you - is all that should have happened.  Old visas were irrelevant.  Only a national-security concern should override this. 

 

You are NOT on the "wrong visa" and did nothing wrong.  Some believe you might not get hassled with a 1-year extension of stay vs your multiple-entry visa - though both are based on being married to a Thai - so it should Make No Difference. 

 

It appears he had a Non-O Visa based on Marriage.  That is all they should need to see.  Showing "proof" was done to get the visa.  If Immigration has a problem with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (who issue visas at consulates), they can take it up with them - not hassle people who did Absolutely Nothing Wrong At ALL!!

 

No where does is it written - that I have seen - that a Multiple-Entry Non-O based on marriage visa is for "short visits only."  If documentation of such exists, someone please reference it.  The same for anyone who can show a limit on how long per-year a person can visit on Tourist Visas.  Where is it written - English or Thai?

 

If the OP had a Non-O Multiple Entry Visa - that is the "correct visa," and what happened only shows that foreigners are being treated in an unprofessional manner at airports, even when they have valid visas, and are following Thai law.  This unprofessional mis-behavior - disregarding Thai Laws and regulations and using "gotcha" technicalities to harass people obeying the law - appears to apply to any foreigner, at any time, for any reason they choose to make up on the spot.

Why is it so hard to understand, that just like any country in the world, Immigration can deny entry as and when they feel the need?
'Suspicion' of working...Your gone. Living here continually on Tourist visas....Your gone (if they choose). There is a whole clutch of things to deny you entry if they choose. What you going to do about it, sit in IDC for weeks and wait for the appeal process after the I/O supervisor backs his I/O?
Not sure if you realise, but being in the country for prostitution services is another reason for denial of entry. Try getting out of that one if they 'Suspect' it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, stoicccc said:

I had my problems this week getting into the country with a long list of TR visas and two of the IOS told me separately that "you should get a visa that allows you to live here, like get married or start a business and then get a visa for either of those". 

A long list of TRs is not the same as a Multiple Entry Non-O - but I get your point on TRs - thank you for the updated info.  Was this at an airport, by chance?  If not, which crossing?  Note that the OP was married, and using a visa based on marriage.

 

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

What you going to do about it, sit in IDC for weeks and wait for the appeal process

They are required to follow the law.  That is not to say they all do (obviously).  The appeal process is 7 days max - not something I am interested in doing to prove a point (even if I know I am right).  As I responded on the other topic, the best choice is to use land-borders, and try another day or another crossing where or when the jerk who doesn't respect legal visas isn't in the way.  Some crossings are still friendly and respect the law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A long list of TRs is not the same as a Multiple Entry Non-O - but I get your point on TRs - thank you for the updated info.  Was this at an airport, by chance?  If not, which crossing?  Note that the OP was married, and using a visa based on marriage.

 

Im the Finnish guy from the other recent thread...my point was just that marriage visa is for living in the country as told to me by the IOs, supporting your comment that they can be used for long term stays

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ID: 49   Posted (edited)

I came into Ranong on a Non O Multi Marriage recently.  I waited on the "Arrivals" line, the IO told me go to the "Departures" line.  I looked confused so he said "Arriving?" I said yes (kind of the reason I was on the Arrivals line).  There was no one in the line before or after me so he had plenty of time for a good long passport read.  1 visa exempt, 2 tourist double entry tv, 1 non-b visa and the current non-o.  He said "married or retired?"  I said "married".   Then started some nonsense about who I was married to and why didn't I go to immigration in Phuket for something or another.  Then he said wait.  And we waited.  And waited. a good 4 minutes of just staring into space.  Then he was about to stamp and stopped.  Then he started reading again.  Then "You had a non-B before".  I said "Yes, expired now since December."  He said "March".  That was the date of the extension not the work permit which cancelled my extension in December.  Then he said "Wait" again.  Then another long 3 minutes while he stared off into the room as if waiting for someone else who never came.  Finally after what seemed like forever he stamped me and let me in.  <deleted> was that about?  I thought going to the Andaman Club would be easy.  Never again.  Flying to KL next 90 days.  Any issue flying to KL and back to Phuket the same day? Please advise. I really would prefer to avoid the proctology exam for no reason.

Edited by ThaiWai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Any issue flying to KL and back to Phuket the same day?

There should not be. However, immigration at Phuket airport has been known to make some pretty arbitrary decisions. I cannot recall any involving Non O visas, but they are definitely a bit flaky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

BANGKOK 30 April 2017 19:55
Sponsors