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Frank12

Being denied entry with marriage visa

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11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, them asking for any proof was out of line.  The OP had a marriage visa.  Stamp stamp - thank you - is all that should have happened.  Old visas were irrelevant.  Only a national-security concern should override this. 

 

You are NOT on the "wrong visa" and did nothing wrong.  Some believe you might not get hassled with a 1-year extension of stay vs your multiple-entry visa - though both are based on being married to a Thai - so it should Make No Difference. 

 

It appears he had a Non-O Visa based on Marriage.  That is all they should need to see.  Showing "proof" was done to get the visa.  If Immigration has a problem with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (who issue visas at consulates), they can take it up with them - not hassle people who did Absolutely Nothing Wrong At ALL!!

 

No where does is it written - that I have seen - that a Multiple-Entry Non-O based on marriage visa is for "short visits only."  If documentation of such exists, someone please reference it.  The same for anyone who can show a limit on how long per-year a person can visit on Tourist Visas.  Where is it written - English or Thai?

 

If the OP had a Non-O Multiple Entry Visa - that is the "correct visa," and what happened only shows that foreigners are being treated in an unprofessional manner at airports, even when they have valid visas, and are following Thai law.  This unprofessional mis-behavior - disregarding Thai Laws and regulations and using "gotcha" technicalities to harass people obeying the law - appears to apply to any foreigner, at any time, for any reason they choose to make up on the spot.

Why is it so hard to understand, that just like any country in the world, Immigration can deny entry as and when they feel the need?
'Suspicion' of working...Your gone. Living here continually on Tourist visas....Your gone (if they choose). There is a whole clutch of things to deny you entry if they choose. What you going to do about it, sit in IDC for weeks and wait for the appeal process after the I/O supervisor backs his I/O?
Not sure if you realise, but being in the country for prostitution services is another reason for denial of entry. Try getting out of that one if they 'Suspect' it. 

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17 minutes ago, stoicccc said:

I had my problems this week getting into the country with a long list of TR visas and two of the IOS told me separately that "you should get a visa that allows you to live here, like get married or start a business and then get a visa for either of those". 

A long list of TRs is not the same as a Multiple Entry Non-O - but I get your point on TRs - thank you for the updated info.  Was this at an airport, by chance?  If not, which crossing?  Note that the OP was married, and using a visa based on marriage.

 

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

What you going to do about it, sit in IDC for weeks and wait for the appeal process

They are required to follow the law.  That is not to say they all do (obviously).  The appeal process is 7 days max - not something I am interested in doing to prove a point (even if I know I am right).  As I responded on the other topic, the best choice is to use land-borders, and try another day or another crossing where or when the jerk who doesn't respect legal visas isn't in the way.  Some crossings are still friendly and respect the law.

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4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

A long list of TRs is not the same as a Multiple Entry Non-O - but I get your point on TRs - thank you for the updated info.  Was this at an airport, by chance?  If not, which crossing?  Note that the OP was married, and using a visa based on marriage.

 

Im the Finnish guy from the other recent thread...my point was just that marriage visa is for living in the country as told to me by the IOs, supporting your comment that they can be used for long term stays

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Posted (edited)

I came into Ranong on a Non O Multi Marriage recently.  I waited on the "Arrivals" line, the IO told me go to the "Departures" line.  I looked confused so he said "Arriving?" I said yes (kind of the reason I was on the Arrivals line).  There was no one in the line before or after me so he had plenty of time for a good long passport read.  1 visa exempt, 2 tourist double entry tv, 1 non-b visa and the current non-o.  He said "married or retired?"  I said "married".   Then started some nonsense about who I was married to and why didn't I go to immigration in Phuket for something or another.  Then he said wait.  And we waited.  And waited. a good 4 minutes of just staring into space.  Then he was about to stamp and stopped.  Then he started reading again.  Then "You had a non-B before".  I said "Yes, expired now since December."  He said "March".  That was the date of the extension not the work permit which cancelled my extension in December.  Then he said "Wait" again.  Then another long 3 minutes while he stared off into the room as if waiting for someone else who never came.  Finally after what seemed like forever he stamped me and let me in.  <deleted> was that about?  I thought going to the Andaman Club would be easy.  Never again.  Flying to KL next 90 days.  Any issue flying to KL and back to Phuket the same day? Please advise. I really would prefer to avoid the proctology exam for no reason.

Edited by ThaiWai

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4 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Any issue flying to KL and back to Phuket the same day?

There should not be. However, immigration at Phuket airport has been known to make some pretty arbitrary decisions. I cannot recall any involving Non O visas, but they are definitely a bit flaky.

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18 hours ago, possum1931 said:

It is possible for people around the OPs age to have property he is renting out. Thai immigration are just a bit too heavy handed at hassling younger people at times. I see the need to make sure people are not working illegally, so why not come down on the people who are employing them, schools, factories etc? Brown envelopes spring to mind again.

What you say is exactly right - if you have a rental property (or 2 or 3) in your home country you could easily be earning enough from that to float around Asia.  Some may claim this - and it would be easy to bring a few documents with you to show to Immigration officers, but how many do that.  And while so many whine about the requirement to carry 20,000 baht cash and show to an officer, do we really believe they have a lot of money?  If you have enough money to live the life of Reilly in Thailand, showing 20,000 baht to an Immigration officer is nothing.  It is peanuts.

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17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

On the contrary - I hate the harm being done to Thais and foreigners alike, by the persecution of law-abiding Farangs at airports.   Why they are behaving as jerks is up to debate - but based on the attitudes the OP experienced, it sounds like a culture of hate within certain groups of Immigration officials.  Who knows how far up this goes - but it Most Certainly does NOT refer to Thai people in general.

Are you serious when you say Immigration officers are behaving like jerks?  They are just doing their job!  The onus is on the traveller to prove that he has the means to be able to survive in Thailand and proof that he will leave.  Thailand's entry requirements set the bar very low and if you cannot show 20,000 baht for a 2-month stay and a ticket out of the country, seriously, they shouldn't allow you in.

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32 minutes ago, mstevens said:

If you have enough money to live the life of Reilly in Thailand, showing 20,000 baht to an Immigration officer is nothing.  It is peanuts.

I think what you are missing is that some immigration officials are not checking if people have sufficient funds to support themselves in Thailand. They are insisting that people who had no idea of the requirement should show 20,000 baht cash on the spot, and preventing them from visiting an ATM to draw the cash (while still allowing them to visit an ATM to draw much larger amounts of cash for air tickets back home). Being able to show millions of baht in the bank is insufficient.

 

When an immigration official wishes legally to deny entry (probably because suspicious about what someone is really doing in Thailand) there are only a few reasons they can give. I believe the 20,000 baht thing is an excuse, and pretty unfair to the affected individual if the official's suspicions turn out to be off base.

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1 hour ago, mstevens said:

Are you serious when you say Immigration officers are behaving like jerks?  They are just doing their job!  The onus is on the traveller to prove that he has the means to be able to survive in Thailand and proof that he will leave.  Thailand's entry requirements set the bar very low and if you cannot show 20,000 baht for a 2-month stay and a ticket out of the country, seriously, they shouldn't allow you in.

You are right when you say they are just doing their jobs, but they have a certain amount of discretion which means using common sense, and common sense is not compatible with Thailand in any way. I am not a Thai basher, I see the good in most things in Thailand, and the people also, but I will also say what I think.

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10 hours ago, Frank12 said:

 

Yes you are right and untill your post I didn't realize that I made it unclear. So yeah I was finally let in . The title of the thread was reffering to my visit back to my home country next month and me coming back whether there is a chance I am going to be denied entry? Anyway people are right and in fact I caused the harm to myself by being totally careless with the law etc. (like Thai people being caught when the Police finally stops them for driving without helmet)I would appreciate for the mod to either change the title or even close it because I unconsciously might spread wrong information because yeah I was let in .Anyway  I didn't realize that it is true I am on a wrong visa and having non immigrant doesn't allow me to stay long term and I should get the extension. I mean worst case scenario I will buy the Thai Elite visa because people write about it as a valid option. So yeah will just stay abroad at least 6 months/year from now on and get the marriage extension ASAP.

 

Thanks for all the info/Thread closed.

In the meantime, if you are still planning on attending your friends wedding outside Thailand before sorting out local banking, getting a extension based on marriage, an Elite visa or taking the wife back to Europe, use Suvarnabhumi airport as recommended by ubonjoe in the very first response to your OP.

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16 hours ago, mvdf said:

I'm struggling to understand why you and others on this forum WONDER why IOs behave in a manner you deem inappropriate! 

 

I am Asian and when I travel to Schengen countries, the U.S., Australia etc I am occasionally interrogated, my travel history scrutinised, itinerary analysed...

 

Why is it that you think or expect westerners to be treated preferentially, kowtowed even, just because you come from first world countries? Immigration authorities in this region are entitled to interrogate, analyse, admit or expel, scrutinise all arriving human beings at ports of entry in the same exact manner we Asians are treated when we arrive at your airports!

 

That is a good answer, but Thailand depends on tourism and people settling here more than the US, UK Australia etc, and should be enforcing the rules where employers and illegal workers are concerned, and trying to encourage tourism and people who want to settle here.

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9 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

That is a good answer, but Thailand depends on tourism and people settling here more than the US, UK Australia etc, and should be enforcing the rules where employers and illegal workers are concerned, and trying to encourage tourism and people who want to settle here.

Thailand does not depend on people settling here. In fact people settling here is the last thing they want unless they bring investment. This would dilute what they call "Thainess" and also bring radical ideas like 'democracy' and free speech. The US specifically requires immigration to keep GDP growth moving along and fund future needs as the birth rate is too low to sustain the country in the long term.

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32 minutes ago, tonray said:

Thailand does not depend on people settling here. In fact people settling here is the last thing they want unless they bring investment. This would dilute what they call "Thainess" and also bring radical ideas like 'democracy' and free speech. The US specifically requires immigration to keep GDP growth moving along and fund future needs as the birth rate is too low to sustain the country in the long term.

So if every expat who lives here, who have wifes, families and regular incomes from their own country, suddenly upped and left at the first opportunity, it would not harm Thailand in any way, and the Thai government would be glad to see us go?:sad:

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2 hours ago, mstevens said:

Are you serious when you say Immigration officers are behaving like jerks?  They are just doing their job!  The onus is on the traveller to prove that he has the means to be able to survive in Thailand and proof that he will leave.  Thailand's entry requirements set the bar very low and if you cannot show 20,000 baht for a 2-month stay and a ticket out of the country, seriously, they shouldn't allow you in.

I think you need to re-read the things that have been said to people entering - very unprofessional.  "Jerk" is a 4-letter word I can use in this forum, though not nearly harsh enough, when it comes to playing with people's lives.  I was questioned for awhile once - but was treated professionally, and would not put the IOs I dealt with in this category.   I was never called a "liar," for example - an accusation that should only occur when accompanied by arrest and proof of such.

 

All the cases I have seen where the person was rejected for not having 20K baht in cash or travelers checks, they Could Have Shown It if allowed to go to an ATM - and in the airport-cases, accessed their funds for buying their emergency tickets out.  20K isn't enough for a 2-month stay, which is another reason it is a pointless rule.  A "throwaway" ticket is $30 or less, and proves nothing.

 

58 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

In the meantime, if you are still planning on attending your friends wedding outside Thailand before sorting out local banking, getting a extension based on marriage, an Elite visa or taking the wife back to Europe, use Suvarnabhumi airport as recommended by ubonjoe in the very first response to your OP.

He already has a Multi-O Visa based on marriage, I believe.  If so, he does not need a new visa.  He needs to enter somewhere that the IOs follow the law, and don't arbitrarily decide whom they subjectively think should or should not be in Thailand.  I would suggest flying back to Malaysia (a country where immigration follows their laws) and then do a land border-crossing.

 

46 minutes ago, tonray said:

Thailand does not depend on people settling here. In fact people settling here is the last thing they want unless they bring investment. This would dilute what they call "Thainess" and also bring radical ideas like 'democracy' and free speech.

Thailand does depend on foreigners living and spending their foreign-capital here, of which each contributes multiple Thai-salaries worth of investment.  That is why the retirement-system exists.  

Democracy is not considered radical at all - you should watch the Friday-evening speeches by the NCPO (has English subs).  But as in the USA, under The Thai Constitution, Democracy is contained within a framework to avoid 51%-mob-rule tyranny. 

I agree that cultural-dilution is a concern, and would support limiting foreign persons to specific, already "culturally compromised" areas - though the Internet and virtual-reality is going to undermine this eventually, in any case.

 

45 minutes ago, tonray said:

The US specifically requires immigration to keep GDP growth moving along and fund future needs as the birth rate is too low to sustain the country in the long term.

We have automation, now - do not need "more bodies".  Unemployment is about equal to the number of foreign-workers - so we could end poverty and the crisis in welfare-program funding in a few years, by simply returning the illegal persons in the country, and pausing immigration.  But ending "cheap human lives" is not what those in power desire. 

The Social-Security ponzi-scheme is the only area where the "more people" rule holds - because it literally is a Ponzi Scheme by definition, so requires exponential growth to maintain the illusion of solubility; this will need to be replaced by a different system, eventually.  Royalties from public land, ocean, and underground resources would make the most sense, as it does not involve stealing what someone else created/earned to fund it.

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28 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

So if every expat who lives here, who have wifes, families and regular incomes from their own country, suddenly upped and left at the first opportunity, it would not harm Thailand in any way, and the Thai government would be glad to see us go?:sad:

You overstate the importance of expats to the Thai economy, it is a benefit but hardly what keeps the country economically stable. 

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