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midas

Can you challenge or appeal the fine imposed under the TM 30 provisions?

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Posted (edited)

As far as I understand the immigration Department will only allow the landlord or housemaster to register the TM 30 and if they don’t both the tenant and the landlord can be fined which I regard as being grossly unfair and illogical.

But what I find frustrating is the lack of seriousness by some receptionists and other such people who in my experience are frequently late or even forget to file the report altogether.

An occupant or guest can only do so much to stress to the manager that they must report your arrival to immigration promptly even though there is a serious lack of awareness by many regarding the application of these rules.

But if you can show evidence to the immigration Department that as far as you're concerned  you have done your best every time you change your location to ensure your arrival is reported promptly but they still turn around and fine you because of some mistake omission by the management (which I also understand is 5000 baht +200 baht extra per day that your arrival has failed to be reported on time), can you appeal or challenge this fine? Or indeed what would happen if you refuse to pay the fine because you consider it is unconscionable?  

Edited by midas
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1 hour ago, midas said:

As far as I understand the immigration Department will only allow the landlord or housemaster to register the TM 30

 

How did you arrive at this understanding?

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1 hour ago, midas said:

can you appeal or challenge this fine?

 

The Immigration Act does not lay out a procedure for the appeal of this fine. The logical first step would be to speak to a more senior immigration official or the chief of the immigration office where you are being fined.

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1 hour ago, midas said:

what would happen if you refuse to pay the fine because you consider it is unconscionable

 

This is unpredictable.

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1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

How did you arrive at this understanding?

Well maybe wrong but my wife has to report me ( being house master not my son as owner )

So ok now you are wandering what if i own a condo - Well ? maybe since you are the owner you can do it yourself

Then you may think what if im staying in a hotel - up to them as they will take a copy of your PP & as a buissiness  must report 

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2 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

How did you arrive at this understanding?

 

 

I am sure I have read it in this section of the forum a number of times although I would have to go back to look for specific threads

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1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

Well maybe wrong but my wife has to report me ( being house master not my son as owner )

So ok now you are wandering what if i own a condo - Well ? maybe since you are the owner you can do it yourself

Then you may think what if im staying in a hotel - up to them as they will take a copy of your PP & as a buissiness  must report 

but this is partly the point of my post. I am finding some staff behind the reception desks are just simply not being trained adequately about this or being warned about the consequences of not doing so.

When it was discovered that they had failed to notify about me in one place where I was staying for a week they simply laughed when I told them this was now serious business.

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18 hours ago, midas said:

 

 

I am sure I have read it in this section of the forum a number of times although I would have to go back to look for specific threads

 

In that case, let's start from square one.

 

The English translation of the Immigration Act says that "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager" must submit the notification of the arrival of foreigners at the residence.

Quote

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

 

The Immigration Act says that for a rented residence, the tenant is the house-master, ie the chief possessor in his capacity as tenant.

Quote

 

Section 4 : In this Act :

...

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

 

The Immigration Act does not use the term "landlord" but a page on the website of the Immigration Bureau uses it, seemingly as a synonym for "owner"

 

With regard to a rented residence there exists some confusion, also among immigration officials, as to who has the legal duty to submit the notification, from whom immigration has the legal right to accept the notification, and whom immigration has the right to fine when none of the parties mentioned in section 38 submits the form. I remember a Thaivisa forum member posting that one official went as far as to say that both the tenant and the owner must submit the TM.30 form.

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All I know is when I lease a condo I consider myself the "house master" I take the lease to

Soi 5 immigration fill in the form drop it off upstairs and get my residence certificate.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I did this once and used a photocopy of the certificate for

all four extension of stays in Thailand. All was good.

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The House Owner / Registered owner / landlord does not need to go. You get a power of attourney and get them to fill it in, you need two witnesses - Immigration does not check anything here.

 

Copy of their ID (landlord) and copy of Blue book, this then allows you, the great courtesy of paying their fine for a late TM30 (1600 Baht) 

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It's a bit like getting on the Mochit to Chiang Mai bus, and as you approach Uttaradit the BIB stops the bus at a road block.  When they board the bus they cite the driver for not wearing a seat belt, and then they collect the fine from every farang they find on the bus.  That's about the same logic.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, jippytum said:

I note you make reference to the condo management being in some way responsible .The Juristic manager of a condo is neither an owner or running a business .Why should they get involved with tm30 or tm28  on behalf of a few lazy owners

Look up 'Agency'.  The manager is acting in the legal capacity as an agent of the owner.

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3 hours ago, connda said:

Look up 'Agency'.  The manager is acting in the legal capacity as an agent of the owner.

Yes that is the law of agency in Australia and the UK but I don't know enough about the Thai legal system to say confidently that it also applies here.

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BANGKOK 11 December 2017 18:13
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