midas

Can you challenge or appeal the fine imposed under the TM 30 provisions?

28 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

In that case, let's start from square one.

 

The English translation of the Immigration Act says that "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager" must submit the notification of the arrival of foreigners at the residence.

 

The Immigration Act says that for a rented residence, the tenant is the house-master, ie the chief possessor in his capacity as tenant.

 

The Immigration Act does not use the term "landlord" but a page on the website of the Immigration Bureau uses it, seemingly as a synonym for "owner"

 

With regard to a rented residence there exists some confusion, also among immigration officials, as to who has the legal duty to submit the notification, from whom immigration has the legal right to accept the notification, and whom immigration has the right to fine when none of the parties mentioned in section 38 submits the form. I remember a Thaivisa forum member posting that one official went as far as to say that both the tenant and the owner must submit the TM.30 form.

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes I can't help feeling the immigration Department deliberately want to keep it all murky.

I mean for example I'm not aware of the immigration Department holding any seminars or briefings for housemaster's and building owners or even giving them anything simple to follow in writing so they have a thorough understanding of their obligations. I mean how many people running accommodation businesses have the time to thoroughly read the immigration act?

Sometimes I'm getting the feeling also that some farangs know more about this subject and are taking it more seriously  than some Thai  accommodation administrators.

And what about this example - one building owner says he only sends a TM 30 report every week on a Monday covering everyone in the building. I thought each person has to be registered within 24 hours of arrival so some people arriving on a Tuesday for example won't be registered with the immigration for 6 days?

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5 hours ago, connda said:

Look up 'Agency'.  The manager is acting in the legal capacity as an agent of the owner.

 

I searched for "Agency" in the Immigration Act and found nothing. All there is, with reference to the notification of the arrival of foreigners at a residence, is house-master, possessor, owner, hotel manager.

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22 hours ago, midas said:

Or indeed what would happen if you refuse to pay the fine because you consider it is unconscionable?  

This has happened, then Immigration declined any further service until the outstanding fine was paid.

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6 hours ago, Formaleins said:

The House Owner / Registered owner / landlord does not need to go. You get a power of attourney and get them to fill it in, you need two witnesses - Immigration does not check anything here.

 

Copy of their ID (landlord) and copy of Blue book, this then allows you, the great courtesy of paying their fine for a late TM30 (1600 Baht) 

 

Obviously, if you obtain a power of attorney to act on another person's behalf in a legal matter, this power of attorney also authorises you to pay any fine on behalf of the person for whom you are acting. Nothing irregular about that.

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It might be a question of laziness . When I arrived at my newly rented condo last year, the office filled in the papers for me and seemed to know exactly what was needed and within 24 hours of my arrival. The only thing I would like   , is to change the delay of 24 hours to 48 hours as it gives you more time to get things done in case someone from the office is absent/ill / on holiday. 

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7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Several months ago i noted two of the imm templates in the pinned section related to appeals and were THB 1,900 for applicants to file.

The forms there are for denial of entry and a visa being revoked.

There is no form for an appeal for being fined. It would likely have to be done through the administrative courts.

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This is what happened to me in Chiang Mai last year, I was staying at a condo but my girl friends lease was due to expire(it was in her aunts name who moved away), I agreed to move in once my lease was up, so I signed a lease there from 1st of December I offically moved in on 1st of march when my condo lease ran out, I was aware of reporting rules and my landlord wasnt keen to front immigration so we got a power of attorney from him to be able to submit the TM30.

This is when it got stupid, they said it should have been reported on the first of Dec and I said I was still living at the condo then and I couldnt live at 2 places at once, they asked where I was staying, I had my now ended condo lease with me, they looked up their records and said I was not reported as living there either, I know better than to argue with some people and the long and short paid a 1600 baht fine for the owner. When I renewed the lease this year I got the owner to go see them, they said he didnt have to worry I got the receipt of notification, but they did say if I left the country and came back I had to report, which I did this morning after getting back from Penang and came back to our shop went to immigration and he stamped my receipt saying I had reported.

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I would imagine there's a few ex-squaddies out there who are familiar with the expression 'Barrack Room Lawyer'

There is always one in every unit who will state Queens Reg's ref such and such. All fine and good until he tries it on the section/troop Staff Sergeant, or if stupid enough the RSM.

I reckon the above gets the same result as trying to quote rules and laws to any official.

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17 hours ago, overherebc said:

I would imagine there's a few ex-squaddies out there who are familiar with the expression 'Barrack Room Lawyer'

There is always one in every unit who will state Queens Reg's ref such and such. All fine and good until he tries it on the section/troop Staff Sergeant, or if stupid enough the RSM.

I reckon the above gets the same result as trying to quote rules and laws to any official.

Which above.

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4 minutes ago, Billy Bloggs said:

Which above.

That wot is rit above lad, yir army above, not yir civvy above coz yir army above is the only one wot applies lad.

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On 4/21/2017 at 1:38 PM, overherebc said:

That wot is rit above lad, yir army above, not yir civvy above coz yir army above is the only one wot applies lad.

Oh so you found out how to quote, yeah could tell it was army, I wasnt Barrack room anything, I was pointing out my own experience, wasnt saying to try this or not try this. So ya can get ya squaddies to go back to ya barracks, I always enjoyed the each to his own room in the airmens blocks myself.

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ID: 28   Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Billy Bloggs said:

Oh so you found out how to quote, yeah could tell it was army, I wasnt Barrack room anything, I was pointing out my own experience, wasnt saying to try this or not try this. So ya can get ya squaddies to go back to ya barracks, I always enjoyed the each to his own room in the airmens blocks myself.

Obviously we had a better sense of humour.

Forgot to add, I never had 'room' after basic training, more of a house really.

Edited by overherebc

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