FolkGuitar

Residence Certificates - Chiang Mai

60 posts in this topic

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:00 PM, FolkGuitar said:

 

$15 and I don't require a receipt. I'll use the other $35 for a better purpose than funding Trump's insanities.  Yes, you can get an appointment on line at the Consulate. I didn't have to make an appointment today. Easier. You prefer to fund Trump. I prefer to fund the Thais.

 

I didn't walk into Thailand blind. I knew how things worked before I came, and once here, I don't try to change the way the Thais do things. It's their country. I just co-exist with it. I'll applaud any positive (in my mind, anyway) changes that they make, but I won't try to impose my western values on them. 

But you may wish to review your Bible... John 8:7

 

Exceptionally good post.

An excellent reply to nonsense.

Some good advice on how to get along here.

Concluding with John 8:7... that's one to live by.

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6 hours ago, Nowisee said:

 

Valid point.  

 

It is less expensive the thai way.  One has to determine if paying more for "principle" is worth it.  

I do like the clever way they have made it so inconvenient.   

 

I find it unreasonable to have to pay $50 for an affidavit... 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's the height of Thai ingenuity that in order to get the "free" C of R one must first travel to Prom. to make an appointment to apply.  You can make appointments just during one hour of the morning and if you miss that window of time, oh well, come back tomorrow.  There never are appointments available for the same day, so you have to return another day for your appointment to submit your actual application then you have to return a few weeks (or is it a month?) later to pick up your completed "free" C or R.  That's three trips to Prom. Mall, assuming to arrive during the window of time when you can make application for an appointment during your first trip.

 

Prom. Mall has discontinued their free shuttle van and that wouldn't have helped for the first visit anyway, which is a morning window of time.

 

So, for those without their own transportation, that's three 400 baht round trips to the mall.  1200 baht.  Plus transport time.  It makes the $50 at the U.S. Consulate for the appointment you make on-line and in-and-out service in minutes from smiling staff look more and more reasonable.

 

Incidentally, the description of my first two paragraphs isn't an "unfounded allegation", it's a simple statement of fact.  Imm. has taken what is a very simple transaction and applied pure bureaucratic genius to it.  You can draw your own conclusions about why it was designed this way and who stands to gain when people get fed up and walk 30 meters down the 2nd floor hallway to a storefront at Prom. mall to get the same document in a few minutes for a 500 baht fee.  How is it this business can gain access that mere morals can't?

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28 minutes ago, NancyL said:

  How is it this business can gain access that mere morals can't?

I take it that this last sentence was made with tongue firmly lodged in cheek ?

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I was surprised by how easy it was to speak with the fat pig IO, who sat on my 90 report for two weeks, on the telephone.  Just called the main number and said 90 day reports...Perhaps you could make an appointment by phone for CR.  Still takes two trips with an agent.

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ID: 27   Posted (edited)

Someone please clarify -- the quickest way to get an RC is to go to room #7? Is this a few minute turnaround, or as I understand with G4T, come back in a few hours? Obviously, the value of time, is important, but not a show stopper -- which parking and $50 at the Consulate certainly is. So -- going direct to room 7 is mo betta than G4T, or not?

Edited by JimGant

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ID: 28   Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Someone please clarify -- the quickest way to get an RC is to go to room #7? Is this a few minute turnaround, or as I understand with G4T, come back in a few hours? Obviously, the value of time, is important, but not a show stopper -- which parking and $50 at the Consulate certainly is. So -- going direct to room 7 is mo betta than G4T, or not?

Ask NancyL for the "best way" to get it done ASAP.

Edited by scottiejohn

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ID: 29   Posted (edited)

57 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Someone please clarify -- the quickest way to get an RC is to go to room #7? Is this a few minute turnaround, or as I understand with G4T, come back in a few hours? Obviously, the value of time, is important, but not a show stopper -- which parking and $50 at the Consulate certainly is. So -- going direct to room 7 is mo betta than G4T, or not?

I don't use the in-house  agents at Prom.  I use one near my location.  G4 is, I believe, the one in  Prom.  Do a quick "Google" search for "visa Agents" in your area and it may be Quicker and cheaper, depending on distances/mode of transport, from your location than going out to prom.

 

PS;  Please disregard my "tongue in cheek" ranting comment above. 

Edited by scottiejohn
Adding the PS; trying to keep the Mods happy
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1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Someone please clarify -- the quickest way to get an RC is to go to room #7? Is this a few minute turnaround, or as I understand with G4T, come back in a few hours? Obviously, the value of time, is important, but not a show stopper -- which parking and $50 at the Consulate certainly is. So -- going direct to room 7 is mo betta than G4T, or not?

 

Go to room #7 just next to the copy shop with all your documents, turn them in and pay 500 baht. 3-4 minutes at most.  Come back the next afternoon to pick up your RC. Less than one minute.

 

I believe that the person who must sign the RC is not on the property, which is the reason for any delay.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

Go to room #7 just next to the copy shop with all your documents, turn them in and pay 500 baht. 3-4 minutes at most.  Come back the next afternoon to pick up your RC. Less than one minute.

 

I believe that the person who must sign the RC is not on the property, which is the reason for any delay.

 

 

As I said above you may be able to use an Agent close to your locale who can do it very quickly!

But if all else fails the G4 at Prom is, I understand, your other quickest option.

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Hubby and I retired to Thailand with our eyes wide open.  Our first involvement here was in the 1970s, We came to Chiang Mai when their idea of entertaining the tourists was to take them up dirt roads to the sad hilltribe villages in the Mae Sa region, then denuded due to poppy production where we looked at elderly women wearing neck rings selling handicrafts and looked at emaciated native elderly  stoned men passed out on the side of the roads,  (Hubby had been to Thailand before me, courtesy of the U.S. gov't)

 

We've returned a few times in the interim but not for more than a few weeks on various tourist or volunteer type actives.

 

We returned to Chiang Mai province in 2006 to find that much has changed.  We spent a month deciding if it was a good place to retire and decide it was.  We had no idea that the Immigration office here was like no other elsewhere in Thailand.  

 

We did our research.  We know the shortcomings of Thailand.  I just want the Chiang Mai Immigration office to be playing by the same rules, on the same page, on par with the other immigration offices in the other provinces in Thailand.  That's it.  That's all I'm asking.  If they would simply stop exploiting the elderly I would stay here.

 

 I decided to help the elderly expats with limited income when I came here.  Those who were OK until they had medical problems.  That's part of how Lanna Care Net came about.  From that I became the president of Chiang Mai Expats Club and I heard the stories of newly arrived retirees and how they are jerked around by CM Immigration.  Just like the elderly and sick clients that LCN serves.  You may think it's "no big deal" to fork over 500 baht for a C of R or pay 3000 for expedited service for your annual retirement extension, but I've been assisting those who are living on the end with my LCN activity -- those who can ill afford that 3000 baht and until recently assisting new retirees in being president of CEC and the new arrivals are shocked to discover that it costs something like 30,000 baht to do an in-country "conversion" if they arrive without a visa or with a tourist visa when they've told the gov't fee is 2,000 baht.  

 

Welcome to Chiang Mai!

 

I've had enough.

 

You guys can visit the marginal guys at Suan Dok hospital and talk with them about what their platelet count and CD4 numbers mean, and go to Immigration for a medical extension on their behalf because I'll be in Malaysia.

 

And you can tell Ubon Joe I won't answer any more bogus visa related questions on his "premier" ThaiVisa forum where they recently started to post obviously fake posts from "newbies"

 

I'm tired of being your pinata.  

 

 

 

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I came to stay in Chiang Mai in January 2010. At that time all Immigration services were located at the Airport Immigration Office..

I did visa extensions, change of visa from Non Imm. to retirement, 90 day reports, retirement extensions, transfer of visa to new passport and Certificate of Residence (C of R)...all at the Airport Immigration Office without the need for a Visa Agent and no need to get up before 6:30 am.

 

The system worked perfectly smoothly for me and, IMHO,  certainly wasn't "broken".

 

It was accepted that you paid 500 baht for a C of R

 

At some point, I don't remember exactly when, there were some people who decided that the C of R should be free and started making noises to that effect. Around that point in time, Immigration moved the C of R office to the building opposite Promenada and started offering free C of R if you were willing to wait a month or so. The anti 500 baht noises continued and Immigration even withdrew the issuance of C of R for a while.

 

Then the Office moved partially to Promenada and the onslaught began from certain people to change the way they worked.

 

Whether the system would have settled to the previous level offered at the Airport Office we will never know.

 

My own view is that since we are visitors here and require Immigration services, and that they have the upper hand, we should not be interfering and they should have been left to allow their system to develop at their own pace. Interference only produced a lot of resentment.

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19 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Lets start with some facts...

1. No one is required to pay for a Residence Certificate.  No one... Free certificates are available.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

2. No one is required to pay for the services of a Visa Agent. It's easy to take care of it yourself.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

3. No one is required to pay for Immigration service above the stated fees for which we get receipts.

We do so for expedited service. We do it for our own convenience.

 

There is no law prohibiting the use of expedited service, nor are there any rules or regulations against the use of expedited service.  To assume that this is aiding and abetting corruption is just that, an assumption... personal views of how things 'should' be. Unless, of course, you have proof that you can show, that laws are being broken. To date, no one has shown such proof. No one.

 

If a person does not want to pay for expedited service, they are not required to do so.

It just takes a little more planning on their part.

 

All good points.

Paying for expedited service is common worldwide.

A good example is getting a US passport.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a little gratuitous bashing of Thais and Thailand?

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ID: 36   Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, MisterTee said:

Paying for expedited service is common worldwide.

A good example is getting a US passport.

But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a little gratuitous bashing of Thais and Thailand?

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

Edited by amexpat
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6 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

 

Your mistake is applying US values to Thailand...

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6 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

The US passport application clearly states that expedited service is available for a specific fee.

 

Very kind of them to state that. Not required to state it, but certainly nice of them to let us know.

 

The signs at Thai immigration clearly state(d) that there is no fee for a residence certificate.

 

Very kind of them to state that. Not required to state it, but certainly nice of them to let us know. And, certainly accurate. No fee is required for a Residence certificate. None at all.

 I suppose it would be nice if they also let us know that an expedited service is available, but certainly they are not under any obligation to do so.

 

Are these facts getting in your way? 

 

Not at all. They are all accurate, and in no way at odds to what we've been saying. Thanks for validating them.

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Actually, the idea of paying 500 baht for an expedited C of R doesn't esp. bother me, because this is something that's practiced in other provinces.  It's just the tip of the iceberg here.

 

Once a embassy official said to me, "Nancy, we know all the police in Thailand are corrupt and they pay to get their positions.  Immigration are part of the police and they've had to pay obtain their positions, so they need to recoup their investment through their jobs.  How do they do this in other provinces?"  I'd done research on how elderly expats are handled in Pattaya and Phuket and found this to be a very interesting question.  The answer seems to be that Bangkok turns a blind eye to the widespread practice of Imm. offices charging a modest fee for expedited C of Rs.  In many provinces it's 200 or 300 baht.  Chiang Mai is among the highest at 500 baht, but others are this high.  

 

So, the practice of charging for a C of R isn't "Chiang Mai specific".

 

What is "Chiang Mai specific" is the practice of severely limiting the number of marriage and retirement extensions granted each day to walk-in "retail customers" while visa agents can jump the queue and making it almost impossible for new arrivals to execute a visa conversion without the aid of an agent.  And the need for the elderly to arrive at zero-dark-thirty to wait in the dark as mosquito bait for their queue tickets.

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ID: 40   Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, NancyL said:

" Once a embassy official said to me, "Nancy, we know all the police in Thailand are corrupt and they pay to get their positions."

 

 

Ahhh.... It's the "Someone said" defense!  Certainly proof positive. :smile:

 

Quote

.... the widespread practice of Imm. offices charging a modest fee for expedited C of Rs.  In many provinces it's 200 or 300 baht.  Chiang Mai is among the highest at 500 baht, but others are this high.  So, the practice of charging for a C of R isn't "Chiang Mai specific". 

 

So actually, you aren't upset with the practice, only that Chiang Mai charges more for it. I see.

It's like the punch line from the old joke; "I know what you are. We are just negotiating a price."

 

Quote

And the need for the elderly to arrive at zero-dark-thirty to wait in the dark as mosquito bait for their queue tickets.

 

Yes, or they can hire a local high school kid to do it for them... as many of us do. It's 300 baht well spent. No more needing to buy Calamine lotion for the bug bites.

Edited by FolkGuitar
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