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Siam Piwat lays out strategies for keeping shopping centres 

52 posts in this topic

Just now, newnative said:

Thanks for the information.

:) welcome.

 

while some tech n apps might not be as updated and well designed for consumer use and that side of e-commerce is still in infancy stages like you have pointed out 

from my POV it has not stopped the boom of e-commerce in Thailand that Thais has over market, over advertise, oversell in all platforms online available to them.

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ID: 27   Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Moonmoon said:

while some tech n apps might not be as updated and well designed for consumer use and that side of e-commerce is still in infancy stages like you have pointed out 

from my POV it has not stopped the boom of e-commerce in Thailand that Thais has over market, over advertise, oversell in all platforms online available to them.

 

Tough to compete in a market with virtually no barrier to entry, and competitors whose alternative is often making 300 baht (or less) a day, or they just want to supplement that 300 baht with a few more baht from selling a small volume online- often at a very low margin.

Edited by impulse

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Many reasons for e commerce to be a long way off in thailand

Logistics- Transportation system lacking, address system a nightmare, computer servers/systems way outdated

Consumer protection laws - non existent, banks no responsibility for fraud

Internet - about as secure as a chicken coop with no walls

Counterfeit items rampant

I could go on but too much against online shopping for me to use it here.

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3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I agree with you Eric - now there's a first!

 

Seriously I think you are right. I do shop on-line sometimes but going to a good mall with the family is more of an experience. Can browse, shop, eat, drink and often see some entertainment. Some things I wouldn't buy on line because I want to see and examine befre I choose.

 

It's like suggesting "take aways" that can be easily ordered on line or by phone will replace restaurants and bars. Will never happen because people want a social experience which eating and drinking out provide, and so does going shopping.

We can agree that human beings are social animal and we have to interact and malls are perfect for such activities with family or friends. We can't be shutting ourselves and communicating with a machine all the time. :smile:

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Btw, what does she mean by 'making it a more exciting experience'? GoGo girls shrieking into microphones? 

 

To put it crudely, if I got a complimentary 'happy ending' from a pretty sales gal, after spending at least 2,000 baht each day, then I would shop daily at Siam....

 

I'm easily persuaded :)

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3 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Really read the following figures. ecommerce will huff and puff and blow your house down. It seems in Thailand when they hear the sound of lightening they congregate under a tree.  

Barely a quarter into 2017, year-to-date store closings have already topped the historical high of 2008, a Credit Suisse report said Thursday. About 2,880 stores have closed year to date, compared with 1,153 at the same time last year.

Since 60 percent of store closures are typically announced in the first five months of the year, Credit Suisse estimates there could be more than 8,640 store closings this year.

article-2601695-1CFF9CAB00000578-698_964x638.jpg

malls1n-5-web.jpg

How many store openings?

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27 minutes ago, newnative said:

How many store openings?

Google is your friend as am I but unlike Google my answer is "Go Fish"

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46 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Google is your friend as am I but unlike Google my answer is "Go Fish"

That was a rhetorical question.

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8 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

i beg to differ, i have 2 retail shops (beauty and cosmetic). business is doing well n picking up because of the over boom of e-commerce which makes everyone and anyone have an online shop or a online reseller. 

2-3 years ago, it was really doing well and me and my wife could really make alot of money from online sales of our products. but nowadays becos of competition (prices undercut) , added delivery costs, online scams and fake goods posing as real from everyone and anyone, online buyers are scared. 

nowadays alot of my customers both new and regular prefer to walk in to my shop to purchase products rather than buying online due to confidence that all my products are real, no delivery time or costs.

 

From sending over 100s of packages per day to sending out just 10 a day in 2-3years.

These are from real first hand experiences. However I am not saying E-commerce is not working. It does. it depends on the product and the model of 1's business. Just that it will not take over retail shops in Thailand becos rent and manpower is still cheap here.

Moonmoom you will be glad to hear you are in a niche market so little effect on your business of Beauty, but cosmetics is growing fast on line, one of your biggest companies Mistine was in the UK with over 300 staff two weeks ago, so it sort of works for them. Beauty will never go away, here Mobile  Beauty is also doing well (hint). A few years ago we said eCommerce will not affect the big chains, but it has and just yesterday by M&S and Debenhams announced more closures. On the food side its growing on-line by the day, more and more delivery vans on the road. Walk down any high street in the UK and you will see many shops empty and been like that for a few years now.

 

One thing on your side is aircon, we always went to a mall to chill down when there, but then price comes into play, here we save money and more important time by ordering on line and getting it the next day. The way its going shops are to visit to check out the goods, then go home and order and save big bucks, but shops cannot survive on no sales.

 

UK is the biggest online shopping nation in the developed world, with almost two-thirds of all adults using the Internet to buy goods and or services. (OECD Official Figures).

 

Sooner or later you will join us I feel sure

 

Hope that info helped

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38 minutes ago, newnative said:

That was a rhetorical question.

No its lets your fingers do the walking G.O.O.G.L.E. it on the keyboard. Have at it bro. 

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On-line shopping will end the malls within 10 years, you cannot stop Ecommerce, if you think you can, look at the worlds biggest on-line shopping nation where the high streets are dying fast. Mind you here they could start banning the shopping websites, like they do with some others


Online shopping won't kill malls in countries like Thailand.
Thai people go to malls for entertainment and to get cool!
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1 hour ago, wakeupplease said:

Moonmoom you will be glad to hear you are in a niche market so little effect on your business of Beauty, but cosmetics is growing fast on line, one of your biggest companies Mistine was in the UK with over 300 staff two weeks ago, so it sort of works for them. Beauty will never go away, here Mobile  Beauty is also doing well (hint). A few years ago we said eCommerce will not affect the big chains, but it has and just yesterday by M&S and Debenhams announced more closures. On the food side its growing on-line by the day, more and more delivery vans on the road. Walk down any high street in the UK and you will see many shops empty and been like that for a few years now.

 

One thing on your side is aircon, we always went to a mall to chill down when there, but then price comes into play, here we save money and more important time by ordering on line and getting it the next day. The way its going shops are to visit to check out the goods, then go home and order and save big bucks, but shops cannot survive on no sales.

 

UK is the biggest online shopping nation in the developed world, with almost two-thirds of all adults using the Internet to buy goods and or services. (OECD Official Figures).

 

Sooner or later you will join us I feel sure

 

Hope that info helped

beauty n cosmetic is not a niche market. in fact there are more brands than just mistine and mobile beauty. Mistine is not even the top seller in Thailand. It is just popular among chinese tourist. i dont even carry their brand in my shop becos Thais dont buy mistine.  Thousands and thousands of brands out there. manufacturers are advertising their factories online looking for potential start ups as well.  From brand to distributors to wholesalers to retailer and resellers.  From Marijuana to Guns to sideline girls.  everything is for sale online nowadays. That is the result of E-commerce. and Hence the price wars and scams which i mentioned.

It is not sooner or later you will join us, I am already with you in E-commerce.

My first hand experience is that E-commerce in Thailand has already had its boom and has kinda imploded. 

 

if u say shops r for going to try out the product and then ordering online is cheaper, have u factor in your transport cost to the shop n back home yet? then delivery cost the cheapest for kerry express now is 35 baht in bkk and 45 baht upcountry. 

so your product that you wanted would cost you . cost of product + transport to n fro from retail + delivery charges.

if you go to a night bazaar u can buy a t shirt for a 100 baht. u would also find the same t-shirt online for 100baht. both are the same. except that buying physically you have security but online you might get cheated unless its a trusted seller.

both has its plus and minus. my own experience is that the boom came and went. people are returning more to the shops nowadays. 

as proof my shop has experience epic online sales during the boom and now it has drop from too much competition and retail is doing much better than before, which is a good thing cos no one is buying much online nowadays n customers has return to the retail shops. 

 

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ID: 38   Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

beauty n cosmetic is not a niche market. in fact there are more brands than just mistine and mobile beauty. Mistine is not even the top seller in Thailand. It is just popular among chinese tourist. i dont even carry their brand in my shop becos Thais dont buy mistine.  Thousands and thousands of brands out there. manufacturers are advertising their factories online looking for potential start ups as well.  From brand to distributors to wholesalers to retailer and resellers.  From Marijuana to Guns to sideline girls.  everything is for sale online nowadays. That is the result of E-commerce. and Hence the price wars and scams which i mentioned.

It is not sooner or later you will join us, I am already with you in E-commerce.

My first hand experience is that E-commerce in Thailand has already had its boom and has kinda imploded. 

 

if u say shops r for going to try out the product and then ordering online is cheaper, have u factor in your transport cost to the shop n back home yet? then delivery cost the cheapest for kerry express now is 35 baht in bkk and 45 baht upcountry. 

so your product that you wanted would cost you . cost of product + transport to n fro from retail + delivery charges.

if you go to a night bazaar u can buy a t shirt for a 100 baht. u would also find the same t-shirt online for 100baht. both are the same. except that buying physically you have security but online you might get cheated unless its a trusted seller.

both has its plus and minus. my own experience is that the boom came and went. people are returning more to the shops nowadays. 

as proof my shop has experience epic online sales during the boom and now it has drop from too much competition and retail is doing much better than before, which is a good thing cos no one is buying much online nowadays n customers has return to the retail shops. 

 

Mistine just visited the UK with over 300 staff and having spoken to many of the Thai staff, Thais do buy it and its a younger market mainly in the villages.

 

Beauty and cosmetics are classed in the Niche market by the likes of Mac Lancome LOreal and others. as its sold to one side of the human race, although male cosmetics have been catching on. But I was only told that by the marketing manger at Lancome and he could be wrong. so over there the bubble on eCommerce has bust, here its growing so fast and shops are closing due to the fact you can buy everything 20%+ cheaper on line. I Bought a dishwasher on Sunday on-line for £295 arrived Tuesday free P&P from a company called Go. In Currys same machine £375,00, Must be the fact that Britain lives in the dark ages and we are going backwards.

 

Lets talk again in 12 months about this as I best start looking for a job and close my Media, web design and web hosting company's down as soon eCommerce in Britain will end.  I will pass on your wisdom to Ebay, Amazon, JS Sports, Argo, Tescos, Morrisons, Sainburys, John Lewis, Asda, Dixions all of which have spent millions of £s expanding their on-line departments as their shops are not doing so well, I think they will be grateful for your wisdom. Keep well.

 

One thing I can tell you is websites here load quickly on even smartphones as we know how to build them, but in your neck of the woods they take for ever to load. I have done the speed checks when there and its painfully slow. Here is a link for you to check any website https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/

 

PPs to stop the scams which we know are there look top left in your browser and look for a green padlock in the domain name and no scam like this address https://www.google.com then as you buy off a site and you go to check out make sure a green or blue padlock is there and you are fully covered.

Edited by wakeupplease
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ID: 39   Posted (edited)

One reason why shopping malls won't die: Some people want their stuff right now.

 

I know one single thing that would defeat every shopping mall in the country: A website like Lazada that provides drop-shipment from Thai manufacturers + products delivered by motorcycle under 2 hours, along with accepting all payment methods + modern ones (Bitcoin, Samsung Pay, Apple Pay). That would be the pinnacle of modernisation and it would trash all competitors... at least until they catch up.

Edited by SiamBeast
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Buying online from sites such as Lazada in Thailand should put anyone off buying online! The fake products are numerous. Got a phone charging cable sold as "original " but stopped working after a month! No warranty. Thai retail companies have got to start " refund" up to 30 days and move away from "exchange/ replace only" then they have a chance against online shopping.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

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2 hours ago, shanesox said:

Buying online from sites such as Lazada in Thailand should put anyone off buying online! The fake products are numerous. Got a phone charging cable sold as "original " but stopped working after a month! No warranty. Thai retail companies have got to start " refund" up to 30 days and move away from "exchange/ replace only" then they have a chance against online shopping.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Maybe we are lucky in the UK as we have a government that puts laws together that outlaw scammers and false trading and police and trading standards enforce the law here. Buy on-line via a credit-card and it goes wrong you get your money back from the credit card company. Remember to make sure the padlock is in your browser b4 you buy. But in reality The UK is a lot straighter that most other countries, we have crooks as most countries do, but they usually head to other countries where laws do not exist, a bit like a certain web designer who left the planet recently, Safety on line means I can buy with no problem, in other countries its a shame as you cannot from what you say.

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7 hours ago, shanesox said:

Buying online from sites such as Lazada in Thailand should put anyone off buying online! The fake products are numerous. Got a phone charging cable sold as "original " but stopped working after a month! No warranty. Thai retail companies have got to start " refund" up to 30 days and move away from "exchange/ replace only" then they have a chance against online shopping.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

And, the prices aren't always that good.  I was shopping for lamps on Lazada and I saw an exact lamp listed as one sold at Ikea--but for a much higher price. 

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I'd love to the sales figures for Siam Discovery, and Siam Center, pre- and post-reboot.

 

I realize she's "proud" of the Siam Discovery award, and the "concept" may be unique (not really) but it seems like a jumble of displays, and if so many people didn't choose to walk through, I doubt they'd sell a thing?

 

Siam Center still seems dark, cramped, a warren of shops, a bit like Pratunam. Granted the physical structure is ancient so they're limited. The Food Court level is the obvious exception there.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, shanesox said:

Buying online from sites such as Lazada in Thailand should put anyone off buying online! The fake products are numerous. Got a phone charging cable sold as "original " but stopped working after a month! No warranty. Thai retail companies have got to start " refund" up to 30 days and move away from "exchange/ replace only" then they have a chance against online shopping.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

That is what I am talking about. Even Lazada has fake goods and customers here has had problems like that as well. This is the bad side of the E-commerce boom in Thailand. Everyone wants to sell something and get money fast and even if there are laws, it takes alot for the police to work on the case.

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14 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

But I was only told that by the marketing manger at Lancome and he could be wrong. so over there the bubble on eCommerce has bust, here its growing so fast and shops are closing due to the fact you can buy everything 20%+ cheaper on line. I Bought a dishwasher on Sunday on-line for £295 arrived

Usually those that offer cheaper goods at 20% might be scams. Just be careful.

I have seen alot of cases like that almost everyday. Online resellers or retailers offering products at below market or wholesale price. Sometimes my own resellers that went over to buy from other sources because they offer cheaper prices than us get scammed.

Always be careful and check n check again. I am sure Thaivisa has loads of examples like that; Thais running online scams via facebook or line.

I myself even though selling my products online, only look for information online and will go to the actual store itself to try out and ensure the product is what I want.

The only times i buy anything online is probably PS4 games when there is an offer for half price and SONY PS is definitely a brand I can trust.

 

1 other thing i didn't mention why my retail shop is doing well is because I carry products that are popular online but are hard to actually find in retail stores.

So instead of buying online where my customers have to wait probably 2-3 days for delivery time or if the online shop might not have any ready stock and have to wait for 1 or 2 weeks, customers after knowing I have all these products as well prefer to just walk in and buy from me saving delivery cost and time from online and of cos I give a discount to my regulars as well making it cheaper to buy.

while other beauty and cosmetic shops don't really do that at all. there's alot more details to it and in depth to the beauty and cosmetic online and retail industry in Thailand it will probably take me days to explain. but well That is 1 of my strategy :)

 

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14 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

One reason why shopping malls won't die: Some people want their stuff right now.

 

I know one single thing that would defeat every shopping mall in the country: A website like Lazada that provides drop-shipment from Thai manufacturers + products delivered by motorcycle under 2 hours, along with accepting all payment methods + modern ones (Bitcoin, Samsung Pay, Apple Pay). That would be the pinnacle of modernisation and it would trash all competitors... at least until they catch up.

no it won't. Look at Mega BangNa, They are expanding! I can't wait! I love the management of Mega BangNa. Good Food, Good shopping experience. Great extensive choice of products. Movie after food. Free Parking for 8hrs!!! 

 

Look at all the Night Train Markets sprouting up across Bangkok. Everyone is unique in their own way. Rent and start up is cheap.

 

There is a place for almost everyone from HISO to low income to go to. 

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2 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

Usually those that offer cheaper goods at 20% might be scams. Just be careful.

I have seen alot of cases like that almost everyday. Online resellers or retailers offering products at below market or wholesale price. Sometimes my own resellers that went over to buy from other sources because they offer cheaper prices than us get scammed.

Always be careful and check n check again. I am sure Thaivisa has loads of examples like that; Thais running online scams via facebook or line.

I myself even though selling my products online, only look for information online and will go to the actual store itself to try out and ensure the product is what I want.

The only times i buy anything online is probably PS4 games when there is an offer for half price and SONY PS is definitely a brand I can trust.

 

1 other thing i didn't mention why my retail shop is doing well is because I carry products that are popular online but are hard to actually find in retail stores.

So instead of buying online where my customers have to wait probably 2-3 days for delivery time or if the online shop might not have any ready stock and have to wait for 1 or 2 weeks, customers after knowing I have all these products as well prefer to just walk in and buy from me saving delivery cost and time from online and of cos I give a discount to my regulars as well making it cheaper to buy.

while other beauty and cosmetic shops don't really do that at all. there's alot more details to it and in depth to the beauty and cosmetic online and retail industry in Thailand it will probably take me days to explain. but well That is 1 of my strategy :)

 

A bit of overnight research and jogging my memory gives me the answer as to why eCommerce may not work out there and you last comment confirms what I found out. The UK has strong laws that are enforced by the police and we have a team called Trading Standards who also enforce laws so scams on the net here usually come from overseas. We also have something else that monitors communications looking for certain things and scams. Not going into that here as it helps keep us safer.

 

eCommerce works here because of the laws and infrastructure, like buy something on line with a credit card and it goes wrong the bank that issues the card has to pay you the money back no arguments they do it. My card was hit in Thai for a large amount and the card company had to pay me back for the loses even though it happened in Thai.

 

20% discount is what you get and more on line here in the UK and next day delivery, Ebay UK same law applies to them, so they have to refund if any problem there. So in a nutshell we have the consumer protection laws in place to protect us from scams. It looks like you do not as yet, but if you do not get this sort of protection in laws it says a lot for business in your neck of the woods to the outside word.

 

Another thing I sort of forgot or wanted to forget was when in Thai and being asked to create websites I felt where lets say scammy we had to say no, so now do not build them, we used to have 6 but turned them off for that very reason you pointed out. We have 1 now and we know the guy well but also monitor it as here we are responsible under UK law.

 

two tips I tried to share with you

 

Mistine impressed me when they where here, they brought over 300 of their staff for 7 days and stayed in 5 top UK hotels like the Hilton. This they do twice a year to various countries. One girl I spoke to had been 3 times in 18 months, Japan being her previous overseas trip. Its an incentive to the staff for selling the product and costs the staff nothing. I just thought that if they can afford to charter an aircraft and pay for hotels in the UK they are a good company and one that you could also look at as maybe good for you? But only you would know more as I do not know much about their on the ground activity

 

Mobile Beauty

Here it works big time as some of our girls who have high flying jobs do not have the time to go to a beauty salon so book visits from Beauty technicians to visit them in their own home and even at work. just an Idea for you.

 

So it looks like until Thailand gets the laws we have and enforce them eCommerce will not work as too many scammers try it on.

 

Facebook is not eCommerce so be very very careful there, as to my knowledge you will get nothing back out of Mark if it goes wrong. Also your Emails received, we get between 100 and 500 aday that are pure scams.

 

Keep well all the best for your business

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7 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

Keep well all the best for your business

Thanks :) 

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ID: 49   Posted (edited)

On 4/21/2017 at 8:27 PM, bheard said:

Online shopping won't kill malls in countries like Thailand.
Thai people go to malls for entertainment and to get cool!

 

 

Eventually, Uber will deliver hookers (and stud muffins) along with food and booze, then half of the population will never leave home.

Edited by impulse

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On ‎21‎/‎4‎/‎2560 at 2:37 PM, elgordo38 said:

Really read the following figures. ecommerce will huff and puff and blow your house down. It seems in Thailand when they hear the sound of lightening they congregate under a tree.  

Barely a quarter into 2017, year-to-date store closings have already topped the historical high of 2008, a Credit Suisse report said Thursday. About 2,880 stores have closed year to date, compared with 1,153 at the same time last year.

Since 60 percent of store closures are typically announced in the first five months of the year, Credit Suisse estimates there could be more than 8,640 store closings this year.

article-2601695-1CFF9CAB00000578-698_964x638.jpg

malls1n-5-web.jpg

I was just reading an article on Yahoo about store closings in the USA and I'm thinking, gee these figures sound familiar. Turns out, the Credit Suisse report you posted about above was for store closings in the USA, not Thailand.  Phew!  Nice if you had mentioned that!  Guess here in Thailand we can continue to congregate under a tree for awhile longer.

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BANGKOK 30 April 2017 04:14
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