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Greeks join nationwide strike over new round of bailout reforms

31 posts in this topic

ID: 21   Posted

The money that was loaned to the Greeks was to pay the debts the EU incurred for bailing out the banks. God forbid banks that lend foolishly should be made to suffer for it.

If banks lend "foolishly" they're condemned for it. If they insist on the creditworthiness of needful borrowers, they're condemned for that, too. Taking gratuitous swipes at archvillain bankers is a game for children. God forbid borrowers should be made to pay their debts.
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ID: 22   Posted

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Socialism's modus operandi.

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

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ID: 23   Posted

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

The Ladybird Book of Socialism.

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ID: 24   Posted

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.
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ID: 25   Posted

In Rome and suppose to take Greek ferry to Greece today which was cancelled. Greece is broke and many unemployed yet those with jobs desire to strike. This is a global world and life is not fair so strike if you wish but no loan and your country defaults into bankruptcy and third world status. It can get worse and no one is entitled to government benefits that the governments cannot afford. 

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ID: 26   Posted (edited)

Blaming the rich is always easy. Blaming others is always easy. Just don't spend more than you make and save a little money and quit blaming others. But people feel entitled to benefits and can't save any money because ......

when did grown ups cease to exist  in the world. 

Edited by Wake Up

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ID: 27   Posted

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:


Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.

Yes, northern Europe is an economic disaster zone. With a healthy thriving middle class.  

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ID: 28   Posted

On 5/18/2017 at 9:49 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

What they had in Greece was not socialism  but Clientelism 

cli·en·tel·ism

ˌklīənˈtelˌizəm,ˌklē-/

noun

a social order that depends upon relations of patronage; in particular, a political approach that emphasizes or exploits such relations.

 

A difficult political concept to  understand unless one has being subject to it. And once a country goes down that road , difficult to get out until the predictable result. Argentina was an other country that went down that road with similar outcomes. 

In such a system supporters of a political party , usually  a dynastic party, are rewarded with favors should their party win. The dynasties are dependent   dispensing these "favors" for maintaining their power, and the opposition promising greater favors to dislodge the party in power and assume power.

A Vicious  Cycle  with a snowballing result.

This Political football was played by three dynastic political families ,Papandreou, Karamanlis and Mitsotakis 

This situation was amplified by the cold war . Communism's march toward the Mediterranean    was halted at Greece's northern boarder of  Albania,Yugoslavia and Bulgaria ,  and Greece became a political football in the game between the East and west.

Trow in the stew a Monarchy, deposition, and a military Junta , and here we are. 

 

  

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ID: 29   Posted

What they had in Greece was not socialism  but Clientelism 
cli·en·tel·ism
ˌklīənˈtelˌizəm,ˌklē-/
noun
a social order that depends upon relations of patronage; in particular, a political approach that emphasizes or exploits such relations.
 
A difficult political concept to  understand unless one has being subject to it. And once a country goes down that road , difficult to get out until the predictable result. Argentina was an other country that went down that road with similar outcomes. 
In such a system supporters of a political party , usually  a dynastic party, are rewarded with favors should their party win. The dynasties are dependent   dispensing these "favors" for maintaining their power, and the opposition promising greater favors to dislodge the party in power and assume power.
A Vicious  Cycle  with a snowballing result.
This Political football was played by three dynastic political families ,Papandreou, Karamanlis and Mitsotakis 
This situation was amplified by the cold war . Communism's march toward the Mediterranean    was halted at Greece's northern boarder of  Albania,Yugoslavia and Bulgaria ,  and Greece became a political football in the game between the East and west.
Trow in the stew a Monarchy, deposition, and a military Junta , and here we are. 
 
  

A lot of what you say rings a bell, in fact it sounds like wake up time in an alarm clock factory!

Can't put my finger on just where at the moment...
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ID: 30   Posted

14 hours ago, hawker9000 said:


Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.

Have you ever lived in a real socialist environment? I have and it works. Everybody worked.

 

People confuse real socialism with the bastardised versions adopted by countries like Britain.

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ID: 31   Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, JAG said:


A lot of what you say rings a bell, in fact it sounds like wake up time in an alarm clock factory!

Can't put my finger on just where at the moment...

 I hear you brother. 

Fortunately in our countries . at least in mine  the US there are strong institutions that are designed to regulate such behavior.

Greece having come from under a 400 years of Ottoman occupation did not have such strong regulating institutions that were easily usurped.  Such strong institutions are important not only in regulating those who are willingly  engage  in such negative behaviors , but also assist those who do not willingly want to but are forced  to in order to survive.

I remember being in a certain country.(i will not mention where out of respect for it's wonderful people) and waiting for the bus, I was used to waiting in a line for an orderly and fair  process, When the bus arrived everyone would rush the bus and I would be left not getting on, or not getting a seat squeezed by the door, after a couple of time I learn, I too rushed the bus. I am sure many others did not want to also, but had to, in order to survive in an unregulated system.

Anyway, I hear the drum beat of deregulation to promote job growth, and I see attempts by political "strongmen" to weaken some of the institutions that have served us so well for so long.

 An unregulated system will pursue a race to the bottom.

 You allow the shirt factory to go to Mexico  in an unregulated or less regulated system with lower  wages, and I who want to stay home and make my shirts have no choice but to go also, or stay home and go out of business.

Remember the slaves in the south all had jobs.

 

 

Edited by sirineou
many typos LOL

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BANGKOK 27 May 2017 11:13
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