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Implications of a retirement visa for Winter visits only.

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20 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

We travel from the US to Thailand each October and stay until mid or late April and have been doing this for five years now - this year will be number six.

 

Each year I apply and obtain a non imm o-a multi entry visa from the LA Thai Consulate via the US Postal Service. I find this to be an easy solution for me, and ensures I only need to deal with the local Thai immigration office once or twice (depending on timing and precise length of our stay) for the 90 day reporting, and of course the initial notification when we first arrive.

 

My wife enters and departs Thailand on her Thai passport.

 

While some will say that I could avoid that annual visa fee, I like doing this because I do not want to be beholden to travel and arrival dates, border runs etc.

My thoughts exactly.. that is why I do it too... easy..  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, james6 said:

BUT being out of UK for a period of six months would mean no yearly increase in pension along with other things RULES tightened up and made to fleece the expats..

If you're keeping your residence in UK, whether owned or rented, and all indications are that you really do live in UK,  which the OP does, I don't see why it matters. Assuming that your pension is paid into your bank account, and you're still paying Council Tax, utility bills etc, then you're just on holiday.

 

It would be different if you were being paid Benefits where you have to "sign on" regularly. A friend of mine is in that situation where if he leaves the UK for more than 30 days he loses housing  benefits but a pension is different.

 

Another thought:

If you ensure that your periods IN the UK are slightly over 6 months each time, then you're clearly living in UK and holidaying in Thailand rather than the reverse

Edited by VBF
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52 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

We travel from the US to Thailand each October and stay until mid or late April and have been doing this for five years now - this year will be number six.

 

Each year I apply and obtain a non imm o-a multi entry visa from the LA Thai Consulate via the US Postal Service. I find this to be an easy solution for me, and ensures I only need to deal with the local Thai immigration office once or twice (depending on timing and precise length of our stay) for the 90 day reporting, and of course the initial notification when we first arrive.

 

My wife enters and departs Thailand on her Thai passport.

 

While some will say that I could avoid that annual visa fee, I like doing this because I do not want to be beholden to travel and arrival dates, border runs etc.

 

30 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

My thoughts exactly.. that is why I do it too... easy..  

No one has mentioned where they plan to live in Thailand.  The immigration office in Chiang Mai can be a difficult office for new retirees to deal with if they want to "convert" a visa exempt entry or tourist visa to retirement visa status.   And the annual retirement extension, (i.e. often called "renewing the retirement visa" is usually a five hour process involving arrival for early morning queueing.  Many retirees end up paying visa agents for a task that is a breeze in other provinces.

 

Thus, a retiree is well advised to obtain a O-A visa in their home country before starting retirement in Chiang Mai.  As described in this thread, it's possible to obtain two years of life from this visa and have minimal contact with the CM Imm. office during this time.

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Although I live here all year, I see no problem spending six moths--October to April--here on a retirement extension. The extension is good for one year; consequently, the extension only gets one day earlier each year--for example, my current retirement extension is good from March 20, 2017 to March 19, 2018. You could get a 90 day non-O in the UK for B1900 or just fly here and get a 30 day visa exempt and can go to a consulate out of country to get a 90 day non-O for B1900 plus expenses. Either way, that could give you a potential 90 years of using the retirement extension if you waited the 90 day non-O period before applying for the retirement extension and loosing only one day a year.  To get the one year retirement extension, you would pay B1900 and a B1000 re-entry permit. You would have to go to immigration for your 90 day reports when here more than 89 days, but you do not need to report when you are out of Thailand because the 90 day count is based on your last arrival date.

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You will be maintaining your UK residency if you spend 6 months in the UK in a year, hence you will retain your full UK pension rights.

 

If you wanted to declare non resident for other tax reasons, you are not allowed to visit UK more than 90 days / ann. Also if you maintain a residence in UK, or even the use of a room in a family or friends house where you keep anything belonging to you and stay for just one night on your return you are automatically deemed resident.

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"The extension is good for one year; consequently, the extension only gets one day earlier each year--for example, my current retirement extension is good from March 20, 2017 to March 19, 2018."

 

My extension is, and has been, the same date for the last 23 extensions.

 

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The determination of UK Residency if you spend more than 183 days outside of the UK is not straightforward. As well as the Automatic Overseas and Automatic UK Tests there are the Sufficient Ties Tests. HMRC have a 104 page manual covering this, including decision trees to help you determine your Residency Status - they are pretty easy to use and a good starting point. If you do not meet the Automatic Overseas or Automatic UK Tests then the number of Sufficient Ties determines how many days you can spend in the UK each tax year without being classed as UK resident. The staying with close relatives Accommodation tie requires you to stay with a close relative(s) for 16 nights in a tax year. Alternatively, if you have accommodation available to you for a period of 91 days and stay there just 1 night this would be classed as an Accommodation tie. This could be a property you own but you do not have to own it for it to qualify. This is a complex area and worth taking advice from an accountant/tax adviser who specialises in UK Residency etc. We have just been through this process ourselves.


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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, skorts said:

The determination of UK Residency if you spend more than 183 days outside of the UK is not straightforward. As well as the Automatic Overseas and Automatic UK Tests there are the Sufficient Ties Tests. HMRC have a 104 page manual covering this, including decision trees to help you determine your Residency Status - they are pretty easy to use and a good starting point. If you do not meet the Automatic Overseas or Automatic UK Tests then the number of Sufficient Ties determines how many days you can spend in the UK each tax year without being classed as UK resident. The staying with close relatives Accommodation tie requires you to stay with a close relative(s) for 16 nights in a tax year. Alternatively, if you have accommodation available to you for a period of 91 days and stay there just 1 night this would be classed as an Accommodation tie. This could be a property you own but you do not have to own it for it to qualify. This is a complex area and worth taking advice from an accountant/tax adviser who specialises in UK Residency etc. We have just been through this process ourselves.


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That's why I suggested to the OP to spend just over 6 months a year INSIDE the UK. (Post ID 17) So therefore if he lives, say 185 days in UK, even in a Leap year he'd only have 181 days out of UK. It's important to consider travel days as I think (and please check) that a day counts as outside UK if one is outside at midnight of that day no matter if one is in another country or en route.

Edited by VBF

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On 2017-6-4 at 8:07 AM, james6 said:

BUT being out of UK for a period of six months would mean no yearly increase in pension along with other things RULES tightened up and made to fleece the expats..

I am a Brit.  I foolishly did the 'right' thing and told the authorities I was living in Thailand.  My pension (State) has been frozen now for the last nine years.

 

If you spend 6 months a year in Britain, however, your pension is unfrozen; your NHS benefits secure.  + you get a Cold weather grant?

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Re my post above - I did not read the two posts above.  I had no idea the process was as complicated.

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Once you are 65 you can get a 12 month multi entry Non O visa based on your state pension, I am assuming from your post that you will get it at 65 before the age goes up.

This would be the better bet, If you stay under the 180 days and time it right you need only leave the country once during your stay.

Its no big deal, I was here for the first 6 years on a Non O, just getting another visa each time I went back to the UK. It makes a change to have a couple of days in the neighbouring countries.

People will argue that the cost of the visa at £145 is a lot more than an extension but its not really as it avoids the hassle of finances for the extension and dealing with immigration.

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If you get a retirement visa you can renew it annually every year.

It does NOT change it's extension date every year.

Therefore if you qualify for a retirement visa/extension in October, your next renewal will be in October one year from the date of your original retirement visa/extension.

In order to leave the country, and NOT void your one year visa/extension you should purchase a exit re-entry permit which will have the same one year period as the retirement visa/extension as your retirement visa/extension.

When in Thailand you will need to do 90 day reporting but you will be exempted from that 90 day reporting if out of Thailand.

Your 90 day reporting clock will start again when you enter Thailand, and countdown to 90 days from the entry date.

You will be responsible for maintaining the financial requirements for the one year retirement visa/extension by maintain  a Thai bank account with the required amount  of money in even if you are out of the country.

There is no requirement you live in Thailand the entire year, but you simply must return each year to renew the visa, extension before it expires each year.

As I said above, use the exit re-entry permit to keep the retirement visa,yearly extension valid while out of the country and return in time for the annual renewal.

That  is the only Thai requirements, but If your home country has different rules, that is not a Thai concern for you.

I had a friend form the Netherlands, a retired Dutch Navy officer who for years spent the winter months in the Netherlands in Thailand and then in the summer months went back to the Netherlands to live.

He passed away a couple  of years ago in his 90's

What you are suggesting is possible according to Thai rules, but as I said I can't say what the laws are in your home country.

 

 

 

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Just now, wgdanson said:

The last pension increase was 3 quid a week, not worth worrying about.

 

The triple lock system guarantees a minimum increase od 2.5%....compounded over the years it is actually worth worrying about.

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21 hours ago, VBF said:

That's why I suggested to the OP to spend just over 6 months a year INSIDE the UK. (Post ID 17) So therefore if he lives, say 185 days in UK, even in a Leap year he'd only have 181 days out of UK. It's important to consider travel days as I think (and please check) that a day counts as outside UK if one is outside at midnight of that day no matter if one is in another country or en route.

Unless the rules have changed, the day you arrive and the day you depart do not count as days in UK.

 

I knew a guy who worked 3 days a week in UK but was non resident as this only registered as one day because he flew in from Jersey every week to work. The tax saved paid for his fuel in his plane.

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59 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Unless the rules have changed, the day you arrive and the day you depart do not count as days in UK.

 

I knew a guy who worked 3 days a week in UK but was non resident as this only registered as one day because he flew in from Jersey every week to work. The tax saved paid for his fuel in his plane.

Quite possibly. That was why I said "please check" in my first post because it's a long time since I've been personally involved in this scenario, and things do change. The general principle of my suggestion still holds good I believe.

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BANGKOK 17 October 2017 18:18
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