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Britain plans to send warship to South China Sea in move likely to irk Beijing

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16 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:


Your comment about ASEAN nations trying to talk about human rights issues is "hilarious".   :smile:

Vietnam, some people call them a 'communist dictatorship'. Countries like Laos and Burma don't have elections. As for the Philipinnes, well, they are a democracy. But the Philipinnes, Duterte, Duterte is well 'in' with Beijing. Actually, with Duterte, some people claim that Duterte doesn't really care about human rights.

And, stand 'shoulder to shoulder' with the Vietnam and the Philipinnes ? Philipinnes is accepting trade and tourism with China. Stand shoulder to shoulder with the Philipinnes, yes, don't bother with claims to the South China Sea, don't annoy China, take trade and tourism benefits from China. Maybe Malaysia should copy the Philipinnes.  :smile:

Considering how many Duterte has killed via extrajudicial means, most of the civilized world claims he doesn't really care about human rights.  Didn't he throw somebody out of a helicopter? LOL

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2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Without having read the thread, as a Brit, all i can say is that we should stay the hell out of things that are the other side of the world and have nothing to do with us.

You may well have a valid point - but I'm always worried when genuinely powerful countries start 'flexing their muscles' over other countries/international waters.

 

History should have taught us a thing or two on this subject - namely, make an immediate international stand to prevent the escalation that is likely to happen if the first violation is ignored.

Edited by dick dasterdly
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1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

You may well have a valid point - but I'm always worried when genuinely powerful countries start 'flexing their muscles' over other countries/international waters.

 

History should have taught us a thing or two on this subject - namely, make an immediate international stand to prevent the escalation that is likely to happen if the first violation is ignored.

Your points are fine, but why should we on the otherside of the world make a stand. Let India, Japan, korea, indonesia etc make the stand its got nothing to do with us.

 

In recent history any involvement we have made has arguably made the countries worse or more unstable. We get no thanks for trying to help. Sure we can back a position but lets not be front and centre. We have plenty of pressing issues at home to deal with without getting into a spat in China.

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5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Your points are fine, but why should we on the otherside of the world make a stand. Let India, Japan, korea, indonesia etc make the stand its got nothing to do with us.

 

In recent history any involvement we have made has arguably made the countries worse or more unstable. We get no thanks for trying to help. Sure we can back a position but lets not be front and centre. We have plenty of pressing issues at home to deal with without getting into a spat in China.

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

You may well have a valid point - but I'm always worried when genuinely powerful countries start 'flexing their muscles' over other countries/international waters.

 

History should have taught us a thing or two on this subject - namely, make an immediate international stand to prevent the escalation that is likely to happen if the first violation is ignored.

 

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What's Britain doing in the South China Seas, not planning another attempt at world domination surely? Football, Cricket and trying not to make a pigs ear of Brexit should be their priorities.

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On 7/28/2017 at 11:22 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

 


There's hardly any Japanese military ships or combat jets involved. That's because, ever since they lost World War Two, Japan has been practically banned from using it's military outside of Japan. The ban was implemented by America and Britain. As for the Philipinnes, their leader Duterte, he's well in with China.

If any Chinese ships stop any ships, the US navy will easily blow whatever Chinese ships out of the water. It's very unlikely any American sailors will be killed. You realise how big and powerful America's navy is, when compared to China's very small navy. I think China has got one aircraft carrier, and that's it. Chna is simply no match for America's navy.

China is simply not stopping any ships, and if they did, they can be easily dealt with by America.

Things are changing quickly, Japan has been given the green light to build military and regardless of military might they are in China's face in a big way. The Philippines are not in China's corner on this issue.

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On 7/28/2017 at 7:04 PM, tonbridgebrit said:


No, it won't work. There won't be anybody left after World War Three.

 

Quite a leap from conducting freedom of passage operations and World War Three. But hey - anything goes when scaremongering.

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On 7/28/2017 at 9:39 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

The politicians have made Britain look ridiculous with these silly announcements. So, Britain is going to send an aircraft carrier to the South China Sea.

These ships have used up a huge amount of tax-payers money. What's the point of sending them to the South China Sea ? They will take part in freedom of navigation exercises. Now then, the USA are already in the South China Sea. American aircraft carriers are already in the area, making sure that all ships can sail through the South China Sea.

There is no need for Britain's military presence in the Far East. If Chinese ships do actually stop whatever ships, let the Americans fire a few missiles and blow the Chinese ships out of the water.  This whole thing is bad use of the resources.


And what's the main point ? It's being done, because Washington wants to make it look like, that there is an international coalition involved in the South China Sea. There isn't one.

 

The UK will not send an aircraft carrier anytime soon, for obvious reasons detailed above. The reference to more immediate operation did not refer to specific vessels.

 

The point of sending them to the South China Sea is to make a stand against the PRC's expansionist stance. That the US does so is great, that other nations participate is even better. Makes it harder for some posters to spin it as a solely PRC vs. US thing - which it  isn't.

 

As was discussed on previous topics (which you partook in), the PRC already limited maritime traffic and activities on several occasions. Hopefully, you'll not waste time re-hashing the same denials and spins employed, and just address things as they are. There is nothing particularly compelling about the call to adopt a strategy of waiting until a crisis develops, then formulate an aggressive response. That's more likely to lead things down a dangerous path, compared with effective ongoing lower intensity operations. Not only that, but I'll bet it would be posters like yourself calling the US to back off in the interest of not starting World War Three if such a situation develops. No such calls will be directed at the PRC, of course, same way no negative references to any PRC actions in the South China Sea are ever made.

 

By your "logic", there can be no international coalitions, because they do not exist until after formed. Nice one.

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On 7/28/2017 at 10:56 PM, tonbridgebrit said:


Well, as soon as Chinese ships block ships in the South China Sea, the US navy will fire their missiles at the Chinese ships.  To suggest that China's navy is no match for America's navy would be putting it lightly.

And the downside of sending a British aircraft carrier to the South China Sea ? It simply irk's or antagonises China. Nothing else is achieved. Britain is suppose to be signing more trade deals with China, encourage more Chinese tourists, encourage more Chinese investment in Britain.  This is simply not the right way to go about things.

 

 

Sounds like you are advocating letting things come to a head - which could create a major conflagration, rather than keeping the PRC's actions in check.

 

There is no British aircraft carrier headed to the South China Sea. Read the OP instead of deploying spins.

 

Possibly antagonizing the PRC seems to be a big no-no. Somehow the PRC antagonizing other nations gets a free pass. What you say the UK is not "supposed" to do any of the things you say it does. There's no obligation to embrace your one-sided pro-PRC propaganda views wholesale.

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On 7/28/2017 at 11:22 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

 


There's hardly any Japanese military ships or combat jets involved. That's because, ever since they lost World War Two, Japan has been practically banned from using it's military outside of Japan. The ban was implemented by America and Britain. As for the Philipinnes, their leader Duterte, he's well in with China.

If any Chinese ships stop any ships, the US navy will easily blow whatever Chinese ships out of the water. It's very unlikely any American sailors will be killed. You realise how big and powerful America's navy is, when compared to China's very small navy. I think China has got one aircraft carrier, and that's it. Chna is simply no match for America's navy.

China is simply not stopping any ships, and if they did, they can be easily dealt with by America.

 

The Japanese military maritime capabilities aren't negligible, to put it mildly. One reason that Japanese vessels do not feature much with regard to the specific hot spots referenced is that doing so is likely to make things even more charged and complicated. As for carrying operations elsewhere, the Indian Ocean, Somalia and the Persian Gulf may be cited. All of the above were conducted as part of international efforts.

 

Not going to bother addressing the standing nonsense about "if any Chinese ships stop any ships, the US navy will easily blow...". That's been dealt with on numerous topics and posts. The latest addition, though - "very unlikely any American sailors will be killed" is about as disingenuous as it gets. For one thing, there's nothing to support this faux assertion. Military operations, especially those carried against credible opposition are often lethal. Other than that, if there's no risk to US personnel, then why tread carefully to begin with? Comparing the number of aircraft carriers got nothing to do with anything.

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On 7/28/2017 at 11:47 PM, tonbridgebrit said:


I think, if Britain, Australia, Japan, Vietnam, if they join in, it still turns out that 90-95% of the firepower against China will be from the US.

Why is Washington encouraging other nations to send ships ? They've got enough firepower as it is.  How about Washington sends one extra aircraft carrier ? This is being done, so that they can say "oh look, it's an international coaltion".


"Outgunned by the US Navy" ?  Yes, same as a man with a starting pistol, one you use at an athletics race. He's going to have a gunfight with somebody with a semi-automatic assault rifle. And the semi-automatic assault rifle has a telescopic sight.  :smile:

 

It's nothing to do with overall fire power. And it's not as if the whole of the US navy is parked at the PRC's door anyway.

 

Spin away.

Edited by Morch

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On 28.7.2017 at 4:16 AM, Grouse said:

An aircraft carrier with no aircraft and precious little defensive systems ?

And not due to arrive in the area before 2020, three years from now, talk about a paper tiger

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