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Ireland floats special EU-UK customs union as way to break Brexit logjam

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm pretty sure that, before my wife got her British passport, she had to apply for a visa to travel to Northern Ireland, even though she had an ILR in her Thai passport. She certainly had to do that when we visited Gibraltar, and everyone's travel documents were checked before we got landside there even though the flight was direct from the mainland.

Your memory is playing you false.

 

Anyone who holds a valid UK visa or entry clearance or leave to remain can freely travel to any part of the UK.

 

Northern Ireland is part of the UK; Gibraltar isn't. However, UK ILR holders do not need a visa to enter Gibraltar.

 

H. M. Government of Gibraltar, Visas and Immigration

Quote

2. The following persons do not need a visa for Gibraltar

(g)  persons holding EU issued family permits, UK Residence Permits valid for a period of 12 months or more, UK Biometric Residence permits or a UK multiple entry visa issued for 6 months or more.

(7by7 emphasis)

Obviously UK ILR, having no time limit, is valid for more than 12 months.

 

However, UK ILR does not entitle the holder to enter the RoI.

Edited by 7by7

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3 hours ago, smedly said:

Your post is almost sensible

 

Countries have had borders operating between them for a very long time, just like exists now between various counties - nobody will be allowed to travel unless they have proper permission to enter the country of their destination, how simple is that

That's very kind of you!

 

BUT

 

Right now, effective U.K. Border (incoming) is in Calais. Do you think France will continue with that?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Grouse said:

So where exactly do you envisage the border with France? In Calais? In Dover? Mid English Channel?

 What's wrong with the present arrangement?

 

French immigration is passed through in the UK, e.g. before boarding the ferry at Dover; whilst UK immigration ispassed through in France, e.g. before boarding the train at the Gard du Nord. (Edit: I now see, Grouse, that you know that; your post above appeared while I was typing.)

 

This is a bilateral arrangement and nothing to do with the EU; as such there is no reason why it cannot continue post Brexit.

 

There is no reason why a similar arrangement cannot be made between the UK and the RoI to cover ferries between the two countries.

 

Of course, the land border is different. The Irish Immigration Garda already carry out random checks on people crossing North to South; maybe UK Border Force will do the same for those travelling South to North?

 

Edited by 7by7

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1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 What's wrong with the present arrangement?

 

French immigration is passed through in the UK, e.g. before boarding the ferry at Dover; whilst UK immigration ispassed through in France, e.g. before boarding the train at the Gard du Nord.

 

This is a bilateral arrangement and nothing to do with the EU; as such there is no reason why it cannot continue post Brexit.

 

There is no reason why a similar arrangement cannot be made between the UK and the RoI to cover ferries between the two countries.

 

Of course, the land border is different. The Irish Immigration Garda already carry out random checks on people crossing North to South; maybe UK Border Force will do the same for those travelling South to North?

 

Er, good will?

 

Why should France tolerate all the potential immigrants to the UK in Calais?

 

Think about it!!

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Just now, Grouse said:

Er, good will?

 

Why should France tolerate all the potential immigrants to the UK in Calais?

 

Think about it!!

Because they already do?

 

Think about the refugee camps around Calais.

 

Although you do have a point; why should France accommodate them once the UK is no longer an EU partner. The French government could simply ship them all across the channel and say it's our problem now!

 

A potential problem Brexiteers don't like to talk about.

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2 hours ago, smedly said:

So who is stalling or making unreasonable demands - I know exactly who and I also believe as I said above they doing it on purpose. 

Right, that's it! Nobody is going home until I get an answer! Has anyone got a gym shoe? 

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Contrary to the belief of some, free movement within the Common Travel Area, which includes the Channel islands and Isle of Man as well as the RoI and UK, only applies to citizens of the members.

 

All others, even EU and EEA nationals, need the appropriate documents, including if required a visa, to enter one part of the CTA from another.

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8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Because they already do?

 

Think about the refugee camps around Calais.

 

Although you do have a point; why should France accommodate them once the UK is no longer an EU partner. The French government could simply ship them all across the channel and say it's our problem now!

 

A potential problem Brexiteers don't like to talk about.

Exactly 

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Leo is speaking sense and trying to put forward solutions. Just a shame no one else is. 

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Re-unification of the whole country would solve a lot of problems, and then let the Irish sort their own country out. It won't be the first time the British have left their citizens high and dry. 

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2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Because they already do?

 

Think about the refugee camps around Calais.

 

Although you do have a point; why should France accommodate them once the UK is no longer an EU partner. The French government could simply ship them all across the channel and say it's our problem now!

 

A potential problem Brexiteers don't like to talk about.

 

The UK could quite legally ship them back to Calais.

 

It is a French problem and NOT a UK problem.

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5 hours ago, Richard W said:
8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm pretty sure that, before my wife got her British passport, she had to apply for a visa to travel to Northern Ireland, even though she had an ILR in her Thai passport.

Who do you recall issuing it?

 

We didn't actually go to NI, we went to Gib instead (a big mistake, but that's a whole other story). The visa for there was straightforward, and issued within two weeks by the relevant government department. I was looking for holiday destinations that were easy for my wife to visit on her Thai passport. Admittedly, it was over twelve years ago, so I'm going off distant memory.

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4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Your memory is playing you false.

 

Anyone who holds a valid UK visa or entry clearance or leave to remain can freely travel to any part of the UK.

 

Northern Ireland is part of the UK; Gibraltar isn't. However, UK ILR holders do not need a visa to enter Gibraltar.

 

H. M. Government of Gibraltar, Visas and Immigration

Obviously UK ILR, having no time limit, is valid for more than 12 months.

 

However, UK ILR does not entitle the holder to enter the RoI.

 

You're right. I just checked, and the Gibraltar visa was when my wife was on a six month visa prior to her first full visa (which also wasn't ILR! It was the two year one). Excuse me the senior moment!

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7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Then why haven't the UK brexit team said that?  All they are saying is that "negotiations are going well".  The EU are saying "we are waiting for the UK to respond".  Even Gove has backtracked on the fishing rites, now saying that the EU countries will still have fishing rites in the UK waters after Brexit.  Nothing to come now until the autumn,  three quarters of a million British people off to Europe this week for their summer hols, unfortunately with less money in their pockets than they would have liked!

They have said it..........over and over, be very careful what media you are listening too and reading, since this whole brexit saga started one thing it has done for me is highlight how the various media outlets report stuff - I look at a headline then read the content - there is almost never a match, I watch Sky news and they are far from neutral, the presenters have their own agenda and their own spin on things and it is generally wrong and seriously biased

 

If you want to believe something and trust something....................listen to it coming from official sources unedited - otherwise it is garbage

 

and there was no back tracking on fishing.............you are seriously uninformed

 

The UK will take back control of its waters and run it as they see fit, they may allow fishing in UK waters if it suits the UK.........the point being .............control, sounds pretty fair to me

 

As it stands - a lot of seafood is caught in UK waters - processed in mainland Europe and sold back to the UK....go figure, your fish supper has traveled from 30 miles away when it was caught and then travels hundreds of miles to reach you plate...cha ching

 

 

go do a little research before you make ............................................

 

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6 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well the pound is on the floor, the economy is stalling (growth prediction for the next quarter is down again), prices in the shops has risen but apart from that everything is hunky dory!  That is what I mean by not having as much money in their pockets.  Still maybe they have all packed their rose tinted glasses and everything will be glorious!

yes people living abroad are taking a huge hit as the vultures in our economic world manipulate sterling based on uncertainty, it is a given and is making a lot people a lot of money that is for sure, when there is certainty it will all go the other way, Sterling will rocket up and the FTSE will plummet with probably one of the biggest sell offs in its history - that in itself might cause major problems.............that is how the dirty market works and it is dirty and rotten to the core - you heard it here first but you will be the last to here it as the market and currency will move way before the official press releases. 

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